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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2005
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    855

    Default treeless to treed and back again?

    Well, not so fast maybe. I sold my Heather Moffett SBS after nearly 2 years-it just wasn't working for us, two seasons of white hairs and a dozen different padding configs. My 18 y.o. arab has a pretty short but strong back...I went back to a wintec dressage 500 which at best look seems to fit us both well, but horse always has big sweaty blotches on his loins. Anyone have any suggestions? This feels like ground hog day to me, round and round. When I went back to treed I thought it would be easy...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    You may want to post this question here: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../messages/6701

    I recently read one member having done exactly what you stated in your title....



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
    Posts
    8,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandrider View Post
    Well, not so fast maybe. I sold my Heather Moffett SBS after nearly 2 years-it just wasn't working for us, two seasons of white hairs and a dozen different padding configs. My 18 y.o. arab has a pretty short but strong back...I went back to a wintec dressage 500 which at best look seems to fit us both well, but horse always has big sweaty blotches on his loins. Anyone have any suggestions? This feels like ground hog day to me, round and round. When I went back to treed I thought it would be easy...
    The First Question (but not the only question) is whether or not you have effective saddle fit. This includes the saddle and pad (they must be considered a "system" ). Sweat stains are an indication of fit, but not the final word. The final word is whether or not the horse is sore after work. If it is, then sweat marks are irrelevant; if it's not, then sweat marks are irrelevant.

    "Treeless" saddles fail in one very important aspect: they do not effectively distribute weight. The white hairs you see are clear indications of pressure points. The "treeless advocates" will often dispute this but the Laws of Physics apply to all, whether or not you've ever studied Law or Physics.

    So return to the beginning. Is the horse sore after work? If so, look for a new solution. If not, then nothing's broke; don't fix it.

    Good luck in you quest.

    G.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    7,320

    Default

    "Treeless" saddles fail in one very important aspect: they do not effectively distribute weight. The white hairs you see are clear indications of pressure points. The "treeless advocates" will often dispute this but the Laws of Physics apply to all, whether or not you've ever studied Law or Physics.
    This is not correct - treeless designs have come a long way and have improved a lot. Bottom line - listen to your horse. Your horse will tell you what works and what does not. Many horse have been ridden in well fitting treeless saddles for years without any problems at all.

    Many treed saddles will create pressure points just the same, depending on how a person sits in the saddle. An unbalanced person can easily upset the weight distribution of a treed saddle and cause poking somewhere.

    You are better of listening to people who have tried numerous saddles, treed and treeless.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    8,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    This is not correct - treeless designs have come a long way and have improved a lot. Bottom line - listen to your horse. Your horse will tell you what works and what does not. Many horse have been ridden in well fitting treeless saddles for years without any problems at all.

    Many treed saddles will create pressure points just the same, depending on how a person sits in the saddle. An unbalanced person can easily upset the weight distribution of a treed saddle and cause poking somewhere.

    You are better of listening to people who have tried numerous saddles, treed and treeless.
    In your last sentence you reversed all your previous advice.

    Look to the horse, not people's opinions, for saddle fit.

    G.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2005
    Posts
    855

    Default this post is about treed saddles...

    I guess my title wasn't clear. I didn't post this on the treeless forum, which I am a member of, because treed saddle probs are OT there... I am not running back to treeless, not quite yet anyway, neither am I searching for advice here on treeless saddles, because I can get that there.

    So, if my horse isn't showing signs of soreness despite the round ovals of sweat on his loins, then I should figure this is OK? I have looked at dozens of saddle-fit vids etc and they almost all seem to show some big WB or TB with a relatively flat and long back-would love to see a saddle fitting vid of arabs only...



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2007
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    8,794

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandrider View Post
    I guess my title wasn't clear. I didn't post this on the treeless forum, which I am a member of, because treed saddle probs are OT there... I am not running back to treeless, not quite yet anyway, neither am I searching for advice here on treeless saddles, because I can get that there.

    So, if my horse isn't showing signs of soreness despite the round ovals of sweat on his loins, then I should figure this is OK? I have looked at dozens of saddle-fit vids etc and they almost all seem to show some big WB or TB with a relatively flat and long back-would love to see a saddle fitting vid of arabs only...
    If your horse is performing and not sore then there's nothing broke and nothing needs to be fixed.

    Any book, video, clinic, or other presentation works with what they have in front of them. If that horse does not approximate yours then it may or may not be relevant to your situation.

    You've always got the standard in front of you. Heed it!!!

    G.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2009
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    223

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by islandrider View Post
    I guess my title wasn't clear. I didn't post this on the treeless forum, which I am a member of, because treed saddle probs are OT there... I am not running back to treeless, not quite yet anyway, neither am I searching for advice here on treeless saddles, because I can get that there.

    So, if my horse isn't showing signs of soreness despite the round ovals of sweat on his loins, then I should figure this is OK? I have looked at dozens of saddle-fit vids etc and they almost all seem to show some big WB or TB with a relatively flat and long back-would love to see a saddle fitting vid of arabs only...
    I am being slow today...please clarify for me. Exactly where is your horse sweating? Is it where the saddle is or is not. If not is he sweating other then under the saddle or you are worried because he is sweating under the saddle????



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2005
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    855

    Default

    The sweat/pressure marks I am questioning are two large oval spots on his loins i.e,
    under the back of the saddle.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
    Location
    Warren County, NJ
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    3,599

    Default

    Are you sure the 2 oval spots are right under the back end of the panels, and not just right behind the saddle?

    We had a thread going about this in the dressage forum. This time a year (shedding season) there's more horses having this and it's not necessarily saddlefit related but pad related.
    Check before you take the saddle off & locate the ovals, it's very possible it starts right at the back edge of the back panels and ovals onto the loins, in which case it's not a saddle pressure point as it's happening right behind the saddle. The friction comes from the pad causing these sweatmarks and doesn't necessarily sore you horse.

    If it is indeed underneath the backpanels, then it's possibly a saddlefit problem and your saddle might either be too narrow, or be an okay fit in front but needing a tiny rise at the back.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2009
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    223

    Default

    I was always worried that a dry spot means pressure. I was always told a horse will not sweat where there is pressure and this was true for my guys. I only worried if there were dry spots and so far I have never had a sore back in a competitive or endurance ride in the last 35 years.

    Do you have a picture?

    My daughter an I will be riding today. I will try to remember to get pictures after the ride.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 22, 2005
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    Default

    Hmm, I will def. check next time to see where the ovals are in relation to the saddle/pad before I untack him. Thanks for that!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 18, 2008
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lieslot View Post
    This time a year (shedding season) there's more horses having this and it's not necessarily saddlefit related but pad related.
    .
    Every year my horse gets rub marks in the loin area with a winter coat, not a summer coat but only the winter coat. The hair is worn really short in 2 spots.
    This is every horse I have ever owned and again only with the winter coat. The summer coat does not mark.
    I also assossiate? dry spots with pressure points, not wet spots.



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