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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2007
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    133

    Default Spin-off of Horse hit by other boarder - pasture horse extraction problems

    Hey,
    I was reading the other thread about the horse who got hit by the other boarder. It got me to thinking about my situation. My horse is in pasture board with 10 other horses. 5 of these just got added recently, to take them off the 'hay' pasture.

    Anyway, since those guys got added, whenever I need to take my horse out of the pasture there are a few extremely pushy horses crowding the gate and I have had to resort to whapping them with the lead rope and yelling at them.

    First I try whirling the rope fast so it makes that buzzing sound; this ordinarily backs off the regulars, and I never have to touch them with the rope. But these new guys don't respond to that.

    One in particular I've had to drive off as many as four times before he backed off enough for me to get my horse out. The only way to get him to back off is by actually whapping him with the lead rope.

    It occurred to me after reading this thread that if the owners saw me doing this, they might be horrified. But I feel I'm justified - it's a dangerous situation and I'm dealing with it in the way that works. I could use a whip, I suppose - but I don't see how that's really any better than the lead rope.

    Ideas? Do you think I'm going to get in hot water over this? I have to look out for my safety, don't I?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 23, 2001
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    1,963

    Default

    I think you have to do what you have to do to safely get your horse out. But this doesn't sound like a safe situation to me. I'd bring it to the BO/BM's attention before someone sees you and decides you're being abusive (or it's your fault because you have cookies, etc).

    The likelihood of you getting kicked (by accident) or your horse getting kicked while extracating him seems high to me...



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2004
    Posts
    4,748

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    Not only should you not get into trouble for this but it really shouldn't be your problem at all. But since you're willing to deal with it, I would certainly have a whip with me so you can keep them further away. You don't have to beat a horse to get the point across. The only concern I would have is to make sure the whip doesn't effect my own horse while leading him, since they can get the jitter bugs if they thing you're going to use it on them.

    I had that problem but since I didn't have a horse on a rope it was a bit different. I took a whip, to create distance but I ended up working with this pushy horse and did manage to teach him to give me space. He would really crowd and disrespect me dangerously. He did learn to trust me, I didn't hurt him ever, but I found out what I did is also used by other prominent trainers. When I would walk, and he wanted to walk past me, get too close, I would just tap, tap, tap on his chest while holding the whip length across his chest and he got to the point where he would just walk behind the whip. I also have half of my barn as a run in and when I would bring in the food I would make all the horses leave so running it through the air to get the whipping sound would tell them to leave, I would tell them "OUT" and if they didn't leave I would tap their butts with the whip, and then if they were really uncooperative they felt it, just enough to get my point across. Eventually all I had to do was to say, "OUT" and they left.

    I would talk to the BO and let them know that with the pushy horses in the pasture it's dangerous when you bring in your horse so you will be taking a whip with you to keep them at bay. I think once you've established with those horses that you are NO NONSENSE they will not only respect you but let you get your horse without a problem and crowding you. But I think first I would let the BO know that you won't be crowded by those horses and you will protect yourself and let her know how you will do it. Neither the BO or horse owners should have any reason to challenge your right to protect yourself. In fact you have the right to say that you are not safe in that pasture with those horses while leading in your horse. Just my opinion. I just don't think it's your responsibility to train their pushy horses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aeternitee View Post
    Hey,
    I was reading the other thread about the horse who got hit by the other boarder. It got me to thinking about my situation. My horse is in pasture board with 10 other horses. 5 of these just got added recently, to take them off the 'hay' pasture.

    Anyway, since those guys got added, whenever I need to take my horse out of the pasture there are a few extremely pushy horses crowding the gate and I have had to resort to whapping them with the lead rope and yelling at them.

    First I try whirling the rope fast so it makes that buzzing sound; this ordinarily backs off the regulars, and I never have to touch them with the rope. But these new guys don't respond to that.

    One in particular I've had to drive off as many as four times before he backed off enough for me to get my horse out. The only way to get him to back off is by actually whapping him with the lead rope.

    It occurred to me after reading this thread that if the owners saw me doing this, they might be horrified. But I feel I'm justified - it's a dangerous situation and I'm dealing with it in the way that works. I could use a whip, I suppose - but I don't see how that's really any better than the lead rope.

    Ideas? Do you think I'm going to get in hot water over this? I have to look out for my safety, don't I?



  4. #4

    Default

    We use a whip and crack the offenders with it doesn't take long for them to learn to stay back or their going to get the end of it and it will hurt.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2007
    Location
    Pen Argyl PA
    Posts
    3,786

    Default

    i have done the same thing, swing the lead line, but if they are really being a problem, bring a dressage whip out with you and start using it. Nothing more dangerous than pushy horses in the field. I also never give treats to my horse when others are around. if he's hard to catch i'll sneak him one just to get the halter on, but the other horses need to stay away. And i'm not talking ABUSE, just a few smart smacks and they usually learn pretty quick.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,966

    Default

    I think 90% of the people on that thread were overreacting. If you want to be the only one to "train" your horse, then keep it at home and don't board it out. Period. If other people have to interact with your horse, they have to do what they need to do to be safe. If that means smacking a horse who deserves it, then so be it.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2001
    Posts
    1,250

    Default

    The horses where I board are pushy and total treat-hounds which means I get swarmed when I go get my mare.

    I have this lead rope and I won't go get her with anything else:

    http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.h...c-86f1e50230a6

    It's a "natural horsemanship" type rope, so it's designed to be twirled around. And since it's nice and long I can twirl it and still have plenty of space to be out of danger. The weight is perfect and the popper at the end helps too.

    I usually start by "flinging" the end towards a horse that is crowding me. If this doesn't back them off, then I start twirling.

    I twirl it so that there's enough length to hit the ground as it twirls. This extra noise usually helps. I swing it slowly and deliberately. If the horses don't back away I have no problem letting them "walk into" the twirling rope.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    11,372

    Default

    I understand how hard it can be with a bigger herd...

    But you have to keep in mind the potential risk of any correction you issue.

    For example...if you're swinging a rope and you hit one in the eye and scratch the cornea? Yeah, I'd be ticked. And I'd want you to pay for the vet bill.

    I think a better solution is a longe whip that you can smack horses away with--shoulder, hip, etc. But I would be REALLY ticked if I saw someone (even unintentionally) whacking my horse in the face.
    Last edited by BuddyRoo; Feb. 27, 2009 at 12:53 PM. Reason: spelling
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 2, 2007
    Location
    Upper and Lower Canada
    Posts
    2,863

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    Where I board, there's one really spoiled, pushy mare in the pasture with my mare. She has no sense of boundaries and even ran over her owner once.

    I've tried yelling, twirling a lead shank and even hitting her with the end of the shank or a dressage whip, to no avail. Now I just get someone else to help me--she holds the offender by the halter while I bring my mare in. It's the only way to deal with it.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2002
    Location
    Prospect, ME
    Posts
    4,565

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    If any of my horses crowd the gate and I'm not around to deal with it, I would HOPE that the person there would stand up for themselves (and the horse the were trying to extract from the pasture) by wapping the offenders with a lead - having bossy horses crowding the gate is DANGEROUS for everyone involved!!! Obviously I'm not talking all-out spider monkey crazy abuse, but offending horses need to be disciplined.
    -Jessica



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2003
    Location
    US
    Posts
    1,966

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    My personal policy with other people's horses is to mind my own business, unless the behavior threatens my personal safety or property. I wish other people would do the same. But they won't. The problem with horse-lovers is that too many of them loooooove horses so much that it crowds all the common sense out of their brains.

    You really shouldn't have to tiptoe around, afraid to smack a horse that's threatening you for fear of what the owner might think. Seems that is becoming a bigger problem with our (collective) horse culture these days. Too many horse-lovers, not enough horsemen.

    Fact is, the VAST majority of horse owners are not abusive, and if one of them smacks your horse, he probably deserved it.

    (I'm going to go ahead and put a disclaimer here that yes, some people are actually abusive, and that is bad. Duh.)

    Quote Originally Posted by AppJumpr08 View Post
    If any of my horses crowd the gate and I'm not around to deal with it, I would HOPE that the person there would stand up for themselves (and the horse the were trying to extract from the pasture) by wapping the offenders with a lead - having bossy horses crowding the gate is DANGEROUS for everyone involved!!! Obviously I'm not talking all-out spider monkey crazy abuse, but offending horses need to be disciplined.
    Agreed. I have a nosy horse, and I practically beg people to smack him. No one will do it. Wish they would. Hell, I'm thinking of paying a few of the barn kids to go out and smack my horse around.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 7, 2009
    Location
    Allenton, MI
    Posts
    45

    Default

    Perfect example of why we have a strict "NO treats" policy. If you want to feed them to your horse, do it inside away from the rest of the horses. If I am crowded at the gate (I am the BO) when bringing in the horses, I have to be the one to train them to back off and wait their turn. If the owners do not like that, well, they need to put their horse in private turnout and pay more. It is dangerous. Period. It is an huge liability to have someone get hurt because everyones horse is trying to get out of the gate or trying to go after your horse. The largest group we have is 8 geldings. There is one who is a pig and can't seem to learn his lessons very quickly. I explain the situation to his owner and she understands she might come and see me teaching her horse pasture gate manners. I can't get hurt by this horse. Sorry, neither can anyone else.

    I often say, if people had to live with their choice of horse, day in and day out, 75% wouldn't keep their horse very long!

    jane



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 6, 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    1,951

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    You really shouldn't have to tiptoe around, afraid to smack a horse that's threatening you for fear of what the owner might think. Seems that is becoming a bigger problem with our (collective) horse culture these days. Too many horse-lovers, not enough horsemen.
    That's true. My neighbor's horse, which I talked about in the other thread, has been getting away with murder for years. The woman just toodles around on the trail and doesn't ask much of him. She doesn't discipline his biting because "that's just his personality. He had a hard life when he was owned by a cowboy". I'll bet. That cowboy probably kicked his ass when he bit him.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,071

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    I once boarded for over a year where the BO;'s horses and a few other boarders' horses would attack horses being brought out of a large pasture. BO had a hot wire stretched at an angle before the gate, to keep horses off of the gate. Since the "bad" horses, about 6 of them, would bite and kick any horse at the gate, and would sometimes run from the back of the pasture while I was leading mine in, I would let mine come in with me without a lead rope on, so to avoid getting bitten or kicked. Then when we got to the hot wire, I'd use it as a defense mechanism, allowing miine to run in between the hot wire and the gate while I fended off the others. I never had to hit one of them, but I did have a lead rope for protection. One of the "bad" horses would turn and back up and try to kick me when I swung the lead rope at him.
    Didn't take mine long to learn to follow me to the gate, run away if a bad horse tried to attack, and then run up and into the gap when I held the hot wire out for protection. Mine also knew if I was helping bring in horses to wait till the bad ones were taken out of the gate, and then come up to come in for the night.
    Other boarders and the BO whipped horses, and would leave the hot wire down, letting horses get trapped by the gate. One woman left a horse between the hot wire and the gate one time, a small area.
    Bad situation but at least it made my horses look like they were well behaved in comparison. I have no problem with people discipling my horses, but I don't want ears or eyes hit. And I want to know if mine is not behaving in the herd or in the barn with other people. (since I'm not a very good disciplinarian.)



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
    Location
    South Carolina
    Posts
    5,003

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    10 horses all crowding the gate sounds like an injury (to human and equine) waiting to happen. Have you asked the BO how she plans to fix this situation?



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2007
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    133

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    Not all ten of them crowd the gate at once...the previous 4 or 5 regulars know better and they play it cool. And three out of the five new guys play it cool as well. There are really only two of the new guys that do this. So I'm really more in a situation where I'm trying to get my horse out the gate, and one or two other horses are determinedly trying to enter my space.

    To me they act like they want to get OUT. But I don't really care about their motives...to me, I just don't want my horse to get hock-kicked or get kicked myself.

    I'll mention it to the BO so there's some kind of a crumb trail about why I'm doing this, if it isn't obvious to onlookers.

    And good suggestion about the lunge whip. It's one more thing to handle and manage, but if it makes them stand off out of our space while we're negotiating the gate, it'll be worth handling.

    I appreciate the suggestions and perspectives - thanks!



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2008
    Posts
    3,131

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    I find it easiest to use a dressage whip or lunge whip to keep other horses away; I find it's sometimes hard to spin a lead rope around without accidently hitting your own horse. Actually, with 10 horses, I don't think I would dare going out there without a whip.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

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    Please use a longe whip. A lead rope or a dressage whip do not keep you out of kicking distance.

    I would plan to spend a little extra time "training" the newcomers to stay off the gate so that you don't get hurt. Crowding at the gate is unacceptable. When you enter the pasture, all the horses need to step down one in rank and defer to you. Please be careful. My horses know that if they do anything to a horse I am leading in, I will drop that lead rope and go after them. Each of them has done it once. Just once!
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Apr. 6, 2004
    Location
    Elkton
    Posts
    4,435

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    I have my horses in my backyard, so the likeliness of someone seeing me hit a horse is slim to none. However, 2 of the horses are my best friend's (who doesn't live her but is here often) and her mare has total "I NEED TO GET OUT OF THE FIELD IF YOU ARE" syndrome.

    She will rush the gate so badly i've been knocked down and horses have been slammed into the gate. After the second time (so I knew it wasn't a fluke or something that scared her) I went into the field with a longe line. She wasn't allowed NEAR the gate. I'd also make her be the last horse to be brought in for dinner. If she tried to rush through the gate she had to go back in until she could walk through calmly.

    It seriously only takes me picking up the whip for her to get in line, she knows she's not allowed to pull that sh!t but she will always try!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2008
    Location
    Central NY
    Posts
    734

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    I think you're doing them a favor by helping to teach their horses proper manners.



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