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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
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    Default Spin-off - Those who didn't sell foals in 2008 - Why?

    Why didn't you sell?

    Have you *really* tried to sell? (ie. lowering the prices, advertising more, etc.)

    Do you usually sell easily?

    How do you usually sell your foals?


    Explain your situation and please stay away from the obvious and easy explanation of "the economy sucks".

    I know a lot of people blame it on the economy, but that's the easy way out. The economy can be blamed for everything and will never answer back! But really, the economy has *slowed down* but not *stopped*. Horses and foals are still selling, and if we see the poll collected by Rendaivu, 2008 was, for 45% of our breeders a pretty normal year.

    It would have very been interesting to run this poll in a "normal" year to see the stats.

    Yup, I am a bit of a stats geek. Plus, my clients keep on having me translate statistical reports so it doesn't help with my disease!

    Many thanks
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 15, 2004
    Location
    Lancaster, PA, USA
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    7,458

    Default

    The one 08 I have for sale I have had a couple inquiries on but that is about it.
    "Basic info" on the foal: good but not outstanding confo/has a few minor flaws. Good but not premium WB inspection scores: 7.5 on gaits, less for confo due to above flaws. Priced at under 10K. However, the little bugger can JUMP. In fact the last time she jumped her pasture gate to join her buddies in another field was just yesterday. She will be a year old at the end of April. We grow our own hay, so I can afford to hang onto her. I don't feel the need to fire sale a young un with talent. I DO need to get hotwire for her though! She is advertised on some online sites (DH, Equine and Warmbloods.com) so yes, she is advertised. In the past probably 2/3 of our foals sold as foals and 1/3 had to wait until they were 3 and backed. The coming 4 YO I have now is the only horse I have had past the age of 3 but he has an asymptomatic hock spur. I did have buyers for him pre backing until the spur showed up on a PPE xray. Last year I quit trying to sell him and he showed u/s a little. Hopefully this year he will sell since he has stayed asympomatic under saddle/showed well. But, the short version he is a tougher sell with an "issue".
    The other poll is interesting in that only a few (9%) sold for less than they wanted. The rest were (so far) pretty evenly split on either got what they wanted or didn't sell at all.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
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    Default

    Exactly camohn, I noticed that too. Even 9% got more then usual!

    Seeing those stats, I am terrified about the situation... Reading the posts here, I was expecting catastrophic results!
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
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  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2004
    Location
    Fleetwood, PA
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    Default

    I have 1 for sale, a 2008 colt with super bloodlines, very, very nice movement and a really pretty exterior -- except that he is chestnut with no white. I think that the fact that he is chestnut and no white has some bearing on the sale potential too, especially for foals.

    I did have him sold for a very good price (higher than his 1/2 siblings out of same mare), but between when we agreed in writing on the price and the PPE, the lady's FEI horse colicked big time and the surgery went well over what insurance would pay. Plus, she had been in Europe for the previous year and she had to bring her other FEI horse back from Holland and that was when the Euro was SO much higher than the $$. So she no longer had the funds to pay full price. I let her back out. That was September. Since then, I have had inquiries (about 5-6), but I am not willing to lower the price as I think this guy is special and am willing to keep him until he is under saddle.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 5, 2003
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    2,794

    Default

    I question the poll numbers. I think most breeders are sitting on last year's foals. There are 222 2008 foals for sale on that popular site, warmbloods-for-sale for all kinds of prices and most ads have been there for a while.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 6, 2008
    Posts
    1,373

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tri View Post
    I question the poll numbers. I think most breeders are sitting on last year's foals. There are 222 2008 foals for sale on that popular site, warmbloods-for-sale for all kinds of prices and most ads have been there for a while.
    The problem with using the warmbloods-for-sale site as an example, is that the ads never leave as in, they never expire! I would hate to purchase a youngster listed on that site, put training on him, and try to sell him at a higher price. Anytime years down the road when someone googled the horse's name, up would pop that ad!



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2006
    Location
    Quebec (Canada)
    Posts
    802

    Default

    My major issue is distance. I have an hard time to get people to drive the 2.5hrs from major cities (Montreal and Ottawa) to come up see the horses I have for sale.
    Les Écuries d'Automne, Québec, Canada
    Visit EdA's Facebook page!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
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    4,476

    Default

    Why didn't you sell? We have been trying!

    Have you *really* tried to sell? YES. REALLY!!

    Do you usually sell easily? YES, definitely.

    How do you usually sell your foals? Through our website and internet ads. Some print ads.


    We normally have no problems selling our foals, youngstock or going horses for more money than I ever thought I'd get for them. I have bottomed out their prices to the point that we are losing quite a bit of money on them. Pony hunter prospects that I would normally sell in a one month period are still here a year later. One in particular, is THE nicest and most talented pony hunter prospect we have ever had on the property and I just can't seem to give him away.

    Our Canadian economy does run off of what your economy is doing for the most part. There are many business aspects of Canada that are not affected by it, but for our business personally, we sell 99% of our horses and ponies to the US. With the current economy, US customers just are not willing to spend the money right now on importing horses or ponies from Canada. Now, if we lived in the US, it might be a different story. I hate to say it, but yes, the current US economy does suck! It's not an excuse, it's fact right now.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2007
    Location
    Northern CA
    Posts
    1,616

    Default

    I don't sell a lot of babies - but once I get them going under saddle, they tend to sell quickly. I think there are a few reasons for that:

    -MOST of my buyers live in California (where I live), and board here is high, pasture board is almost non-existant, so the market is much better for horses that are ready to ride.
    -I breed something a little bit different so riders want to actually see how they are under saddle. I actually had someone who said "I'm not sure average people can SIT that movement" (about a young mare I sold a couple of years ago) then they got on and said, "Wow, it is so soft". I actually think for many bigger moving horses, riders want to get ON them before buying.
    -I cut back on advertising this year because the market IS soft, and because everything I have going under saddle is sold, and my market experience has been it is just easier to sell 3 and 4 year olds. So I toss out a few ads, but won't ramp it up again until my last 3 year old gets started.

    I also had a few sales fall through this year - one "in utero" in which I gave the person the option of backing out if they don't like the foal - she wanted a colt, mare gave me the first filly EVER Then I had someone who did PPE, was ready to arrange shipping, and the horse she had sold came back to her (she had given the person a 30 day $ back option). She couldn't afford two horses. I could fully understand that.

    I am a small breeder - did sell four horses in 2008, so the market isn't DEAD, but it is slow. And prices are down - take a look at ads, go look at a few sales horses. Earlier this year, I actually did go try a few WB youngsters, thinking I might get one going and sell it later in the year - and prices were LOW - nice quality horses, much lower prices than I would have seen for that quality two years ago.

    I don't think the poll is an accurate reflection of the entire horse breeding business - I know some pretty big Warmblood breeders, and although they aren't talking about it, their prices are DOWN, their stud fees are DOWN, and in many cases, they've never heard of Chronicle of the Horse. I suspect the people whose numbers are down are just not voting - and in reality, I think MOST breeders in the US aren't even on COTH.
    www.MysticOakRanch.com Friesian/Warmblood Crosses, the Ultimate Sporthorse
    Director, WTF Registry



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
    Location
    Mirabel, QC
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FriesianX View Post
    I don't think the poll is an accurate reflection of the entire horse breeding business - I know some pretty big Warmblood breeders, and although they aren't talking about it, their prices are DOWN, their stud fees are DOWN, and in many cases, they've never heard of Chronicle of the Horse. I suspect the people whose numbers are down are just not voting - and in reality, I think MOST breeders in the US aren't even on COTH.
    That is true. Which is why I wish some governing body would actually survey the industry to know what's really going on. It's just too easy to make blanket statements! But I still think the poll bears some relevance as the comments I am reading are from this board and my expectation of a disaster was in relation to the comments I read here.

    Spike, yes, in your case (knowing where you are ) distance is a major problem. But I am not sure it would improve so much even in a superior market. That's why we are moving closer to Montreal ourselves We are currently very close to Ottawa but we will be even better located in Mirabel. You should come too The area is lovely, the people are nice and there are lots of horse farms.
    www.EquusMagnificus.ca
    Breeding & Sales - Currently: Eventing & Derby prospects
    Facebook | YouTube |Twitter | LinkedIn



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2003
    Location
    Purcellville, VA USA
    Posts
    880

    Default

    I would have to say that I must not have REALLY tried to sell mine. Typically, I sell my youngsters as foals or yearlings (amazing that some people can look beyond the fuglies!). Last year I sold one at 3 weeks old so I don't know what to blame it on-of course, the obvious would be the easiest, but I also am not willing to "give" them away. On another thread I mentioned that I bought a filly in 1996 for $10,000 and everything I put into my current young horses cost me WWWWAAAAAYYYY more than prices in 1996. From the price of fertilizer that went into making the hay, the cost of fuel to cut/deliver the hay, cost of feed, vet bills, etc. This is the nicest group of young horses I have ever had and if I am "stuck" with them until they go under saddle, so be it. I certainly would prefer not to hang on to all of them but I am not willing to take a loss, now if things don't improve over the next two years then I guess I will have to eat hay too-if I can still afford it.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2008
    Location
    Ocala, Florida
    Posts
    166

    Red face We can hang on......

    I think another symptom of the economy is that many breeders aren't breeding many, if any mares this year ('09).

    I know many local breeders (I live in Ocala, Florida..... everyone is a horse breeder here LOL) have dropped their prices to less than what they have into the animals just to get them off their feed bill. (a single 50#-60# bale of Alfalfa runs us between $14-$19 depending on quality) We do have a good market here when the economy is chugging along like it should, but when things get tough there is a glut of horses available. Normally, when HITS comes to town, good horses are flying "Off the shelves" so to speak. This year they are selling, but slowly and the buyers are being very careful with their pocketbooks. They can get a better horse (more desirable bloodline, more advanced training) for less money and they know it. A good friend who is also a prominent Holsteiner breeders is selling two and three year olds for weanling prices.

    On a positive note, I believe we can hold on. I leased my best mare for '09, but I have three foals on the way this spring.... and I still have my '08 colt. I don't mind watching them grow up while waiting for things to get better. The gears may stop turning for a while, but eventually someone will come along and grease them and the market will start turning again!
    ~~~The first step is admitting you have a problem.~~~
    ~~My name is Wendy, and I'm a horse-a-holic.~~



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    Well, I had a custom foal contract from '05 that finally went to her home in '08. So in a way I 'sold' one, but the actual transaction was removed 2+ years.

    I didn't have a second mare to breed in '06 or '07. I have a filly coming up, and actually *bought* my first foal (after 'making' a couple dozen!) in '07. I started feeling financial crunch in late '06, so was leery to lease or aquire a mare.

    I'm just a little ahead of the curve...

    I still don't know entirely what I'm going to do for this year. Have a breeding already bought, but not the perfect mare to use it for. A couple of super mares I could possibly lease for that... but not entirely comfortable with that... I just dunno yet.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    7,774

    Default

    I had one '08 baby - a fabulous filly by Ikoon out of one of my Dutch mares -- and I haven't tried to sell her. She is quality and I wouldn't price her low just to make a sale.

    If someone made a good offer on her, I'd consider it, but I don't have her advertised.

    Buyers tend not to buy babies unless they get a really good price (from their perspective).



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,379

    Default

    Why didn't you sell? We would like to know the answer to that one...really, if it's not the economy we'd like to know what it is.
    Have you *really* tried to sell? Absolutely! We have lowered prices considerably.
    Do you usually sell easily? Before 2008, yes.
    How do you usually sell your foals? Through our website and ads on as many websites as possible.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    Default

    I actually had someone who said "I'm not sure average people can SIT that movement" (about a young mare I sold a couple of years ago) then they got on and said, "Wow, it is so soft". I actually think for many bigger moving horses, riders want to get ON them before buying.
    TANGET ALERT! TANGENT ALERT!

    I find this a perceptive comment that I've not seen before. Probably only because I've seen the 'top' of the hill and am on my way OVER it.

    And of course, as my c4 is gone, and T9-11 are degenerating... it interests me greatly.

    It just jumped out at me and I had to comment.

    </end tangent>
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Rawley Springs, Virginia
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    Default

    Why didn't you sell?

    Have you *really* tried to sell? (ie. lowering the prices, advertising more, etc.)

    Do you usually sell easily?

    How do you usually sell your foals?


    I only bred one for 2008. I was already noticing the cost of things increasing and backed off from breeding. I want to have the resources to raise them correctly--both time and money. Can't tell you how many nice horses that I have turned down in the last 2 years myself.

    I have not sold my 2008, but I haven't tried very hard. Seems like I did run an ad on one of the internet sites, but can't even remember where. I do get quite a few hits to my webpage and many inquiries. Many folks asking for a deal on his price. Frankly, I like this colt too well to let him go for less and only if the home was perfect. So here he shall stay unless the right offer is made. So I guess I haven't tried too hard.

    I usually get a lot of activity straight from my webpage although I will use dreamhorse.com or one of those. I usually don't have too much trouble selling unless something is an odd height.
    Chris
    Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
    WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)



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