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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2001
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    Greenville, SC
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    Default Horse freaking out over needle *after* its in muscle...

    Eddie has never been needle shy before but after yesterday's series of Naxcel and Genicin (sp?) shots from the vet for a laceration on his hock he has become horrible. I'm supposed to be giving him 20 ml of Naxcel 2x a day- breaking it up into 10 ml at a time in one injection site, plus a shot of Genicin daily, which translates to 5 shots a day. He stands for me to insert the needle but as soon as its in he goes ape-shit. When its injected into his neck he runs forward and then rears- the needle stayed in but he bent it so that it was unusable. When I tried to do it in his hindquarters he bucked the needle out. (All of this was in a stall.) Over the course of a few hours I was able to administer everything he was supposed to get but I'm dreading tonight with 2 more shots. I'm really dreading the next week!! Any advice?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
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    Minnesota
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    Default

    I believe both of those meds can go IV (I know Naxcel can, not sure about gentamicin)...could you ask your vet to install an IV catheter?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 16, 2007
    Location
    Downingtown, PA
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    Default

    Unfortunately, this is par for the course a lot of times with the large volume injections. They make them sore and they start to resent it. Although it usually takes a few days.

    A couple things that I can suggest are:


    Have a friend help hold your horse or at least tie him. You might even need to twitch him because you getting hurt or him not getting the shots are not options.

    Also, make sure that you switch sides am- right side, pm- left side.

    Other than that, good luck. This is not unusual.



  4. #4
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    I agree that a catheter if you are not adept at giving IV injections is the way to go. Both these meds are normally given IV. When given IM they can hurt like heck, of course the horse is going to resent it.



  5. #5
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    Sep. 11, 2003
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    Nuevo Mexico
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    Default

    I feel for you, having just gone through something similar. Yes, Gentacin can be given IV, and it can make them very sore if given IM for a few days in a row. I just went through a long series of Penicillin G (which must be given IM) and Gentacin, and the second week, the horse was so sore that I couldn't even get near him without him spinning and running off. A vet I once knew would say if the horse feels good enough to run away, he doesn't need any more shots but I did want to finish the prescribed course of antibiotics. Even though I can give an IV shot, I can't keep a needle in the vein to push 30ccs of meds while the horse is struggling to get loose, so I ended up having to do some Gentocin IM. I found that doing some of the IM shots in the pecs really helped, as did having another person do a few days of shots when the horse became wary of me.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
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    14,180

    Default

    Ceftiofur is less likely to cause colitis when given IM vs. IV.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Default

    What size needle are you using? Where exactly in the neck are you giving the antibiotics? I thought Naxcel could be given once a day, not like Uniprim which must be given every 12 hours. Are you sure Doc said break it up into twice daily shots?



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 14, 2002
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    the far side
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SLW View Post
    What size needle are you using? Where exactly in the neck are you giving the antibiotics? I thought Naxcel could be given once a day, not like Uniprim which must be given every 12 hours. Are you sure Doc said break it up into twice daily shots?
    Yes, Naxcel/ceftiofur is given 2-4 times daily, never less than twice a day. Its action is time-dependent, meaning that there is no added benefit of having a concentration greater than a minimum threshold, but the longer that concentration is maintained, the more bacteria are killed. This is in contrast to gentamicin, which is concentration dependent -- the greater the dose, the more bacteria are killed, but the dose is limited by its toxicity to the horse.

    I have heard that both Naxcel and Gent can be irritating given IM, but, heck, anything given in that volume repeatedly would be irritating! I would give your vet a call and let him know that your horse is not tolerating IM injections very well. There are other options, and it's not worth him hurting you or breaking off a needle in the muscle.
    The plural of anecdote is not data.
    Eventing Yahoo In Training



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 21, 2004
    Posts
    84

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Duramax View Post
    Eddie has never been needle shy before but after yesterday's series of Naxcel and Genicin (sp?) shots from the vet for a laceration on his hock he has become horrible. I'm supposed to be giving him 20 ml of Naxcel 2x a day- breaking it up into 10 ml at a time in one injection site, plus a shot of Genicin daily, which translates to 5 shots a day. He stands for me to insert the needle but as soon as its in he goes ape-shit. When its injected into his neck he runs forward and then rears- the needle stayed in but he bent it so that it was unusable. When I tried to do it in his hindquarters he bucked the needle out. (All of this was in a stall.) Over the course of a few hours I was able to administer everything he was supposed to get but I'm dreading tonight with 2 more shots. I'm really dreading the next week!! Any advice?
    It's not just the large volume. Gent tends to have a burning sensation when given IM so it's probably more the burn then the volume in his case since he doesn't like it from the start of injection. I wouldn't be surprised if the Naxcel burns as well. A tip for large volumes.....you don't have to poke him that many times. Your vet should have shown you how to pull the need back without coming out of the skin and redirect it to a new area.

    If your horse is going to be on these drugs for awhile you may want to ask for a catheter to be placed. It would make your life a lot easier.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2000
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    midwest
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    Default

    [QUOTE=GatoGordo;3883322]Yes, Naxcel/ceftiofur is given 2-4 times daily, never less than twice a day. Its action is time-dependent, meaning that there is no added benefit of having a concentration greater than a minimum threshold, but the longer that concentration is maintained, the more bacteria are killed. This is in contrast to gentamicin, which is concentration dependent -- the greater the dose, the more bacteria are killed, but the dose is limited by its toxicity to the horse.QUOTE]

    Thanks, I did not release it was time released thing w/ Naxcel.



  11. #11
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    Oct. 2, 2001
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    Greenville, SC
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    Default

    I'm thinking that the catheter is the way to go! I'll ask about that in the morning- I am calling as soon as the clinic is open! Thanks for all the advice so far!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2005
    Location
    Va
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    Default

    My filly had to go through 2 weeks of naxcel. I'd give it to her while she was eating. While her head's in the feedtub I'd stick the needle in. She'd back up a couple steps, go back to eating and I'd finish the injection. After a couple days, she'd grab a bite of food and back up immediately and look at me, but her pigginess would get the better of her and she'd stick her head in and start eating again and I'd get the job done.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep. 14, 2008
    Posts
    429

    Default Naxcel Burns

    I've always been told that Naxcel burns like HELL.

    Some horses really get needle shy from Naxcel treatment.
    I don't know the answer to alleviating the burning.



  14. #14
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    Oct. 2, 2001
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    Greenville, SC
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    Default

    Stuffing his face full of apples and a bucket full of grain made last night's and this morning's treatment soooo much better! He still was flinchy but he wasn't trying to trample me! I did one of the shots in his pecs and he hardly even flinched for that. (Now if I can just get him over his objection to tube syringes in his mouth for the 2x daily bute paste... thats a whole 'nother story! )



  15. #15
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    Apr. 4, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nuts4cowboybutts View Post
    Some horses really get needle shy from Naxcel treatment.
    Mine did. She was always great about shots until she had a series of Naxcel shots, and while she's not really difficult about it now she definitely tries to leave as soon as the needle comes out.

    I'd do the catheter if possible.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 20, 2007
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    449

    Default

    I guess I'm the odd-ball here as I've treated a ton of horses over the years with Naxcel & never had one that got bad during the treatment.

    Also -- we never gave it more than once a day -- always 20 cc's once a day and keep it in the fridge.

    Edited to add that it did work giving it only once a day (for those thinking that it probably didn't work since we only gave it once instead of twice) as the horses were always scoped after treatment....it's mainly used at the track for heavy heavy mucous (inf.) in the lungs that won't clear up & is resistant with regular meds.



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