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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2005
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    616

    Default Am I crazy? Your idea of a free lease is ...

    So, this is a spin-off of a thread that I have going in the "Giveaways" forum, and I'd really like your input to see if I am crazy or not. Seems like the rules/mods are on my side, so I think I'm sane....

    When you hear "free lease", what do you think? When you hear "free lease" of a competitive, sound, well-trained horse, what do you expect to get? What do you expect to give?

    In my experience, a "free lease" is where there is not a lease fee charged, but the person leasing the horse takes on expenses, usually including vet, shoes, board, insurance, and whatever else is needed to care for the horse properly while they are "using" him as if he is theirs.

    This, for the person leasing, is a pretty sweet deal, because they basically get to enjoy a well-trained and nice quality horse without having to put out the purchase price. It also can be helpful to the owner, if they are out of commission (pregnant, injured), or need some help with time/cutting costs.

    So, am I crazy, sheltered, out of the loop, or what? I know you'll tell me if I'm a loon!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 8, 2004
    Location
    The Great, uh, Green (?!?!) North!
    Posts
    3,639

    Default

    Nope, that's my definition of a "free lease" as well!
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."



  3. #3
    ThoroLove16 Guest

    Default

    You're not a loon
    In my expirence also, that is exactly what a free lease is.
    I guess if you weren't too versed in what horses actually cost you might think this would be totally free, but NOTHING is really free anymore...unfortunately.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    May. 12, 2008
    Posts
    3,874

    Default

    Free lease means no lease free. Just like free horse, free dog, free cat - no fee.

    If a horse is being free leased at the owner's place or the leasee's place, there is no fee for the horse. Otherwise it should be listed as a lease for Xdollars. Vet and farrier bills may or may not be additional.

    If a horse is being free leased and boarded anywhere, the payment would be board fee and any farrier/vet fees as decided by both parties. Otherwise it would be X dollars to 'pay for the right to ride the horse', plus board fee, plus any vet or farrier fees, as decided by both parties.

    It is very black and white.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2008
    Location
    Surrey, UK
    Posts
    254

    Default

    No, your definition is pretty much in line with mine! I've free leased a few horses and that's always been the terms



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    4,410

    Default free lease typically means

    that while there is no "lease fee" ie, a month to month charge for leasing the horse/pony, the person "leasing" the horse pays all related expenses, ie, board, vet, blacksmith, entry fees, etc. There are leases that in addition to all that (usually an upper level competition horse/pony) charge a monthly or "show season" fee, which can be thousands of dollars per year, but still cheaper than a 70K pony the kid will outgrow in a year or two.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2007
    Location
    Behind the Orange Curtain
    Posts
    9,694

    Default

    There is no such thing as a free horse



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 24, 2002
    Location
    Northern KY
    Posts
    4,410

    Default Grandpa warned me about "free"

    and said "if it eats or s**ts, it is NOT free.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2006
    Location
    Transitioning
    Posts
    502

    Default

    I've done a few "free leases" at the end of the day I think they sort of suck.

    In one situation I put a lot of training (at my expense) showing (at my expense) and proactive vet and farrier work into a horse and the owner would constantly show up and talk about how much money she was going to be able to sell the horse for now that i've worked with it. At the end of the day I was sick of putting my time and money into a horse someone else was going to profit off of.

    I think it would have been different if the horse was a schoolmaster or was teaching ME, but I didn't really get much out of it other than having to say goodbye to a horse I had bonded with and spent a lot of money on.

    Unless i'm ever in a situation where I can absolutely not afford a horse I probably won't do it again.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
    Location
    Nokesville, VA
    Posts
    34,858

    Default

    I completerly agree with your definition of "free lease".

    I have been on both ends of free leases. In the right circumstances, tehy work out well for both parties. In te wrong curcumstances they can be constant problems. It is important to have shared expectations.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2005
    Location
    Kentucky
    Posts
    4,091

    Default

    I agree with everyone else. A free lease waives a leasing fee, but the horse's expenses are either paid for or contributed to.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2008
    Posts
    132

    Default

    How about a situation where a horse is free-leased as described above or the person leasing pays a small fee in addition to board, vet, and farrier BUT the BO/horse owner continues to use the horse as a lesson horse. Would this generally be considered fair to the person leasing and paying all of the horse's expenses?



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 8, 2005
    Location
    between here and there...in Arizona
    Posts
    587

    Default

    I have done one free lease. The horse stayed at the owners property and she paid for the vet, feet, pretty much all of he care for the horse. I did work at a hunter/jumper barn and I brought the mare over there and I worked extra to cover her board. That was all that I put into the horse. I have to agree with 2LaZ2race. You bond with the animal and then it gets taken away. The owner of this particular mare gave her away to someone else after I took care of her for seven years. Never again will I be in a situation like that.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    13,075

    Default

    Usually I understand a free lease to mean the person leasing the horses pays all the costs as if they owned the horse. Grey areas include who pays the vet fees if the horse colics, etc. Lameness caused by use would be the leasee's fee. Contracts can be put in place, or insurance paid, but in the end, it boils down to ethics and how trustworthy each party is. A piece of paper is just that and hard to follow up in court. The owner does have rights and these should be understood, i.e whether they want to ride the horse at any time, etc. The owner can come and take the horse back on a moment's notice if they suspect abuse, normally a month on either side, etc. First right of refusal to buy is a good one to put in.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 26, 2007
    Posts
    454

    Default

    Presently I have a horse out on a free lease. As much as I'd like to have him at home to ride, it is much more financially advantageous to have him leased. The Lessee loves him to death and my pocket book is healthier. It is a win/win situation for both of us.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 12, 2007
    Posts
    503

    Default

    How about a situation where a horse is free-leased as described above or the person leasing pays a small fee in addition to board, vet, and farrier BUT the BO/horse owner continues to use the horse as a lesson horse. Would this generally be considered fair to the person leasing and paying all of the horse's expenses?
    No, that's not fair if it is a full lease. Two things should happen. The owner of the horse needs to be aware the BO is using him in lessons. Then the person full leasing should be paid a per ride lesson fee. It's like subletting a house.

    I've done that same situation many times, and the standard fee around here for using a horse in a lesson is $10/ride. The BO or trainer pays the person footing the bills for the horse, but she can pass the cost off to the student by raising her rate on that horse.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jun. 15, 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    729

    Default

    No ,you're not bonkers. I've posted on your giveaway thread.

    PS: I think you have shown wonderful restraint. I would be pissed to have my add hijacked like that.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2005
    Location
    Paris, Kentucky
    Posts
    3,195

    Default Sugar Daddy????

    Quote Originally Posted by indyblue View Post
    No ,you're not bonkers. I've posted on your giveaway thread.

    PS: I think you have shown wonderful restraint. I would be pissed to have my add hijacked like that.

    Ditto the above! The only way to get an upper level horse with somebody else paying for everything is if
    a) you are a kick-ass rider or
    b) you are giving that person something "non monetary" in exchange

    NOBODY RIDES FOR FREE!!!!!!!!!!
    Holly
    www.ironhorsefrm.com
    Oldenburg foals and young prospects
    LIKE us on Facebook!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,967

    Default

    I have a couple of free leases going on, and the only grey area is vet fees. I pay routine and emergency vet bills, but the owner pays for their yearly plan fee (which covers vaccinations and wormings) and if they colic or require major care, I would pay up to a certain amount, and then the owner and I have to jointly decide whether to go further depending on the situation.

    It works out good for me, because one of the horses I'm leasing I would never in a million years be able to afford. For shows I pay all show expenses except the owner has done the USDF and USEF fees associated with the horse.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 8, 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    1,230

    Default

    What you listed is my idea of what a free lease is. In my experience the leaser usually pays for insurance on the horse. Major medical is paid by the owner (if insurence doesnt cover it) if something happens that isnt directly the leaser's fault (colic, pasture accident, etc)



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