I KNOW i read about this somewhere on here in the past couple months but i must be blond and not finding it? I dont know. So here goes...
FLAT back, no wither... Saddle slips side to side with any little shift of weight on my part. Teaching me to stay very centered, LOL, but this is a green horse who has balance issues still and i hate to keep throwing her off. Not to mention that i feel we are just about ready to try the big canter, and i forsee her spinning around a corner and me just sliding right down the outside and plastering myself into a fixed object...
My horses live in ThinLine pads, which has always helped with my slipping front to back issues... But i guess they dont help in this situation. Tried without it today, no different.
Tried my other saddle that fits her... No different.
Girth her up until she cant breath and she bucks at the walk... No different...
Is there any hope?
If only i could take some wither from my shark fin guy and add it onto her...
I got a friesian in for training same issue but the saddle with shift so far left no matter what I did. The short of it is ... the saddle fitter found the horse was under devloped in his left shoulder and higher in the rt back causing the saddle to shift left, so the fitter flocked accordingly and it fixed the problem. Now 8 months later after correct work he has developed the muscle and evened out so the saddle needed to be refolcked and all is well.
imho, a slipping saddle is a saddle that doesn't fit, generally. That could be through the shoulder, perhaps its bridging, or the panels just don't sit appropriately for that horse's back shape.
however, if you're certain the saddle fits, I've found that wool pads are a fabulous anti-slip pad. The natural wool fibres interlock with the horse's hairs and provide anti slip. I bought my first mattes pad (for an ung-dly $160) nearly 11 years ago because I was pole bending a mutton withered flat backed horse and the saddle always slipped during high speed turns. Wool did the trick.
pure mohair, in a diamond (or roper's) shape. Its akin to the anatomical girths being sold now, ropers have been using this style for years because it gives a wide stable area for holding the saddle in place. Very necessary for stopping a steer, but also magically effective on a roundbacked mutton withered horse.
I have a penchant for mutton withered horses, and I used to game and pen, so hard fast abrupt turns were liable to get you introuble quick if you didn't have these sorts of things worked out in advance. and its never nice to cut a horse in half.
I'm currently selling a saddle that has a very interesting rear billet.... its set back and on a D thats in a nylon loop, rather like a humane girth. It has a stabilizing effect on the entire saddle. Sadly, mine is not wide enough for mine own horse (hence it being for sale) otherwise I'd offer it to you as the panels are designed with the broadback in mind.
Check your saddle fit, the tree may not be open enough or could be the wrong shape for the horse. IF you can post pictures? Try a point billet saddle and one that is wide enough to sit down and around your horse making it more stable.
I found the serge panel saddles slip less, and if you can find a good fit it will become much more stable although with "no wither" horses there seems to always be a small bit of shift.
We have a QH gelding here that takes a 4xw...but it is finally stable on him
It may be the fit. I need to get pictures of it on her. She may have outgrown this headplate, which is scary, i only have one size bigger, i'll have to order more it looks... I'm concerned if i go up in sizes, i need the Flair refit as well. Know of any Flair fitters in the Aiken area?
it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
Picture these letters upside down
A " V " shaped saddle on a " U " shaped horse is going to slip just as badly as the opposite. On a very wide horse with no discernable shape to the withers, you actually want very little wither clearance. Remember--there is a huge difference between CLEARANCE and PRESSURE. No, you don't want the pommel sitting down on the horse, but you also need the saddle to sit down and around the horse, not be perched on top.
Perched on top = slipping.
I've found a couple that work... Duett and treeless being the 'easiest' and *I* couldn't ride in either... search for hoop trees. Albion, Black Country (County?) and Frank Baines all have versions. I'm in an Ancient Passier. (the new ones, sadly don't seem to work, though I haven't gone the custom route)
I do definitely pay attention to the girth too. Wider is better, contoured is better. Non-slip material can be helpful--but if the saddle doesn't fit, now you're just going to add discomfort if the girth is super-grippy and the saddle still wants to roll.
Panel shape can also make a big difference. Contrary to popular fashion, I find a banana shaped panel does nicely on a short-wide-flat back. Gussetted panels tend to have a definite edge and can 'dig' on this type of back, where the curvier panels lift off behind without any hard edge.
In the top 5-10 pages of this forum are some useful threads on wide horse fit etc.
I agree that the fit might not be quite right, in the meantime you can try the following things as "band-aids"
-You know that tacky stuff that you put under the rugs in your house to keep them from slipping? Use that against the horse in place of a pad
-Get a genuine chamois cloth, we slightly and use as saddle pad
-use a breast plate. Make sure it attaches to your saddle at the dees and between the legs to the girth. You are not using the breast plate to keep the saddle from slipping back, but to stop it from rolling too far to either side.
I've got the same problem. While lots of saddles appear to fit nothing sits down on her enough to stop them from rolling. I've tried all kinds of pads and girths and nothing seems to work. The Childeric seems to work but I am hesitant to get one because the tree is fixed and it is foam stuffed and with my horse just coming up on her fifth year I'm worried she'll change to much and outgrow it. At the moment I am making do with a double sided non slip pad but it is very frustrating. Fitting a dressage saddle is so frustrating I'm ready to go back to jumping!
Well, both of my wide dressage saddles have quite a bit of wither clearance on her... My WOW "hugs" her well i think, and i put in the largest gullet that i have, which is a 3, there are plenty more to try, i just have to buy them. However, the wider i go with it, the higher the back end sits and she's already slightly butt high, it will have to be adjusted back there too and then i'm not sure if its the right panels for her, which can be changed as well... Of course, it all just takes money... sigh...
Then i have an older courbette that has what i think Pinto is discribing in regards to the banana panels. This saddle also slides on her, though i also think it hugs around better, but has a very high cut back pommel, so does not hug in that area, i think that may be the key here. This saddle sits a little low in the back, which could easily be remedied by reflocking, its wool, or at least try a riser pad, and technically that might bring the front down more to get that "hug" we are looking for? I dont know. This is the courbette on her: http://s3.photobucket.com/albums/y67...0the%20Trenck/
I'm really terrified to start on a search for a new dressage saddle that fits her. I had a heck of a time finding one that worked for me and then hit on my WOW and would really love to only own wows from now on... lol. The way this wow is may be totally set up wrong for her, there are plenty of other options... I just have to find someone WOW savy to talk to about it i guess.
The wow is what i broke her out in, but back then, she had a wither. I never had a problem with slipping until now. How frustrating.
Try finding a shaped girth in an 18"... She MIGHT be able to do a 20" now, but i'm not sure. Her 18" is the all elastic one from dressageextensions, its just a straight girth and completely elastic, no grippy material.
it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
The Trenk is defnitely too narrow. WAY too narrow.
The Wow appears to be the wrong panels. Have you ever tried half panels? In the UK known as Owen panels? It's definitely too narrow now, which you might be able to mitigate in the front, but that doesn't really widen it in the middle, which is where you are having your issue, I think. A handwidth or two behind the points is where it's sitting on top of the horse rather than around the horse.
I am in love with the stirrup bar placement on the Wow. I'm told they might be able to mitigate the wide-tree-narrow-hip issue for me... (I have a degenerating hip and the treeless worked FABULOUSLY for the horse, not-so-much for me. )
Looks like i need new panels. The panels i have are suited to a horse with a wither that has a dip behind the shoulder, which is why my wow fit her fine when she was younger as that describes how she was then... NOW is another story... I now need a panel with a tab, no gusset, and no stitch line, the exact opposite of what i have!
So i'm thinking i'll get new panels at this point. I love my wow too much to sell it. Its the only saddle i've ever felt at home in and didnt rub me raw. It just fits me too well, now i just have to get it to fit her! Looks like i'll be getting some larger headplates as well.
The Trenck isnt actually her saddle, but has a wider tree on it, though aparently too narrow for her, which is fine. However, it didnt slip as much as the wow does. But i do not want her uncomfortable and cause other issues due to poor fit. I can use no slip gadgets and breastcollars... But again, i hate to cause issues for her down the road because i was determined to ride in a saddle that didnt fit her...
Until i find that money tree... I'll stay bareback for a bit... Sigh...