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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2008
    Location
    Marshall, VA
    Posts
    915

    Default Seeking a Critique of a Missouri Fox Trotter Mare

    Okay, Harriett is my up and coming mare.

    I've been working on acquiring her now since October and finally our schedules match and her vaccines are now current. Here's the original 2 posts about her. http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=187430

    She was originally to arrive this past Wednesday, but do to weather (snow & Ice) my BO wasn't chancing hauling. So, we are on for next week.

    But I wanted some input, in the original thread, it was mentioned that she may have a bit of a Cresty neck. Can you tell better by these pictures if that is true. Both my vet and the current owner's vet says they see no real issue to be concerned with.

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02073.jpg

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02091.jpg

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02075.jpg

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02089.jpg

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02090.jpg

    http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...n/DSC02094.jpg

    This is video of Harriett's current owner riding her.

    At a trott, owner can't get her to Fox Trott.
    http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...t=MOV02086.flv

    Mostly at a Walk.
    http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e1...t=MOV02084.flv

    Thanks for the help, she's supposed to be a Steady Eddy and also broke to pull a Cart, which excites me beyond her ability to trail ride.
    Chronicle of My Horse
    Secret Passage Ranch
    **a member of the
    Riders with Fibromyalgia & Adult Re-riders Clique



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2007
    Location
    Bastrop County, Texas
    Posts
    190

    Default

    I think she's cute -- a little bit of a "chunky monkey," but not too, too chubby! Be sure and post photos of her after she's being ridden regularly and put on a diet. Congrats!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2003
    Location
    Lapeer, MI, USA
    Posts
    4,075

    Default

    She does have a little enlargement at the bottom of her neck. It's hard to tell from the photos because there are none of a full side view. she has her head turned in most of them.

    I hope you will be working with a trainer that knows gaited horses. What I saw in the short clips are a grazing bit that wasn't fitted right. I don't know why it was pulled back like it was, yet the reins looked loose. ???

    A full cheek, 3-piece snaffle or a simple snaffle and take the horse back to basics. Her back needs work to bring it up. Could be cause by improper saddle fit? She was close to doing a FT in the trotting clip... she may need more support... I'm still learning how to work with my fatso... : )

    You could add some magnesium oxide to her diet if you get worried about cresty neck... 1 ounce or so.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2009
    Posts
    216

    Default

    Cute fat mare.
    Well......if she was a person she would be up into the obese category.
    Nothing wrong with her that more work won't cure. Have fun!!!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2007
    Location
    California
    Posts
    334

    Default

    She looks like a MFT that's a bit chunky. No more. Anyway, If two vets have said she's okay, who cares what random non-vet internet strangers say about her?


    In the videos I see someone who can't ride on a horse that's pretty much doing what she pleases. Fix the rider part of the equation, fit the bit correctly, teach her that the bit means something and she should foxtrot fine.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 13, 2006
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    652

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by gabz View Post
    She does have a little enlargement at the bottom of her neck. It's hard to tell from the photos because there are none of a full side view. she has her head turned in most of them.

    I hope you will be working with a trainer that knows gaited horses. What I saw in the short clips are a grazing bit that wasn't fitted right. I don't know why it was pulled back like it was, yet the reins looked loose. ???

    A full cheek, 3-piece snaffle or a simple snaffle and take the horse back to basics. Her back needs work to bring it up. Could be cause by improper saddle fit? She was close to doing a FT in the trotting clip... she may need more support... I'm still learning how to work with my fatso... : )

    You could add some magnesium oxide to her diet if you get worried about cresty neck... 1 ounce or so.
    I would agree with "Gabz "to work with a gaited trainer....A fox trotter walks in the front and trots with the back feet...it doesn't seem to me that she is doing that gait correctly. JMO



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 29, 2008
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    1,593

    Default

    If your only worry is a cresty neck, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Yes, her neck is a little cresty, but she doesn't have a really lumpy cresty neck. She's a bit fat, so who knows what she'll look like on a diet + work = ) We've had a couple saddlebreds with a thyroid issue that developed cresty necks and we've had some that were just naturally cresty. Hers doesn't really look bad to me, and it's generally something that is easily manageable if something did eventually turn up.

    I think she's cute. And if you're mostly looking for a quiet horse to go on trails with and just enjoy and she fits the bill so far, then I think she'll do just fine. If your vet and her current vet see nothing to worry about, then don't = ) Also, if you wanted to take lessons with somebody that works fox trotters, then you could probably get her to fox trott if that's something you're interested in. If not, then just let her trot, haha.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2007
    Location
    Behind the Orange Curtain
    Posts
    9,694

    Default

    Of course she has a cresty neck- she's FATFATFAT!

    She needs you Good luck with her!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 13, 2007
    Location
    Northern Virginia, 45 minutes east of paradise - 2 hrs during rush hour
    Posts
    2,370

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    My question is...why are you buying her?
    She looks like she would make a nice trail horse, and you could probably get her to do a smooth and easy sitting trot. HOWEVER, if she is not fox-trotting now, do not assume that she will in the future. It just may never happen. If you are buying her to take out with other gaited horses, she could get left in the dust and the upset of being left behind could cause her to hard trot and not fox trot.

    So, I hope you are buying her as a nice trail horse and not as a fox trotter and not *paying* for a fox trotter. When she is pulled together its possible that she racks instead of fox trotting which could be why she is being ridden so loose. On the other hand, with the right training she could be a foxtrotter deluxe.

    That said, we had a fox-trotter who could only do it slowly. He foxtrotter naturally in the field. He hard trotted or racked when he wanted speed. In terms of temperament he was great. Lovely boy. Very loyal and sweet. Very steady even as a 3 year old. A great trail horse and he could jump the moon. His sire tended toward the same neck as your girl if he was allowed to get heavy. A lot of MFT's are like that.
    "The mighty oak is a nut who stood its ground"

    "...you'll never win Olympic gold by shaking a carrot stick at a warmblood..." see u at x



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 7, 2005
    Location
    Georgia
    Posts
    2,493

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    Of course she has a cresty neck- she's FATFATFAT!

    She needs you Good luck with her!
    ROFL!! Exactly what she said. Work some of that blubber off of her and she'll be fine.
    You know why cowboys don't like Appaloosas?" - Answer: Because to train a horse, you have to be smarter than it is.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 29, 2006
    Location
    Davie, FL
    Posts
    960

    Default

    Crestiness having been addressed...I'll put my 2 cents in on her gait...in the video I didn't see any foxtrot but she *is* in the diagonal, that's a start! She may just not be fit enough to gait at this point. Too heavy or too thin they *can't* hold the gait with a rider, they need to have strength to foxtrot in good form. Jake was kind of *poor* when I got him, he couldn't foxtrot a lick, now he can do it forever, and like glass. He also ft's and long trots in the pasture--depends on where he's going and how fast he wants to get there.

    I think she's worth a try and they (MFT's) make wonderful friends and trail partners! Bring her home, get her fit, and enjoy!



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    348

    Default

    Good luck with her!
    I grew up riding and showing Fox Trotters and having someone who knows how to ask for the gait helps a LOT. I showed a mare who was a model champion but could not hold a fox trot unless you REALLY knew how to keep her up in it. She preferred to pace or hard trot. That's just how she was.
    It looks like the rider in your video isn't doing her any favors as far as asking her to gait, so I don't have an opinion either way on the video.
    Depending on her training also, she may *not* want to go in a snaffle. My old gelding (who would have been 26 this year) was trained the "old" way in Missouri... no snaffle, he was only really happy in something with a 3 or 5 inch shank and a solid mouth. I did ride him in a Myler comfort snaffle with short shanks, but he didn't enjoy a totally broken mouthpiece, and didn't listen in a snaffle bit - needed a curb. Like, I could ride him in a halter or sidepull, bt a snaffle, he didn't really "get." And the colt I was showing about 7 years ago, when they broke him, it was straight to a curb bit.
    Not saying they're all trained that way, but don't assume she'll go in a snaffle right off the bat (not that you were but other people have and I'm suree in the future will advise you to try a snaffle).
    Again, good luck and enjoy her - they generally have great minds!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 22, 2003
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    7,136

    Default

    Expect problems with rein ads. The rider in the videos pretty much RANDOMLY hit the horse in the mouth, so expect a horse who does not expect most rein "aids" to mean ANYTHING. I suggest you train the horse on the longe to ride with voice commands, turn with your legs, and leave her mouth ALONE.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2003
    Location
    Lapeer, MI, USA
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    4,075

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by PaintedCash View Post
    Good luck with her!Depending on her training also, she may *not* want to go in a snaffle. My old gelding (who would have been 26 this year) was trained the "old" way in Missouri... no snaffle, he was only really happy in something with a 3 or 5 inch shank and a solid mouth. Not saying they're all trained that way, but don't assume she'll go in a snaffle right off the bat (not that you were but other people have and I'm suree in the future will advise you to try a snaffle).
    Again, good luck and enjoy her - they generally have great minds!
    Yes - good points about the horse not going in a snaffle - I was thinking one thing but only saying part of it. There are some people that "assume" a gaited horse must go in a long-shanked curb bit... I was only trying to express that using a snaffle is okay if needed to start a horse over again. - which I didn't say at all.

    I was just a little appalled at what I could see in the video about the equipment in use. The OP mentioned that the current owner could only get the horse to trot - which when viewing the video, I was thinking came from what was being used and how it was being used. I'm still a little perplexed about the position of the bit in the horse's mouth...



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 11, 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    348

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabz View Post
    Yes - good points about the horse not going in a snaffle - I was thinking one thing but only saying part of it. There are some people that "assume" a gaited horse must go in a long-shanked curb bit... I was only trying to express that using a snaffle is okay if needed to start a horse over again. - which I didn't say at all.

    I was just a little appalled at what I could see in the video about the equipment in use. The OP mentioned that the current owner could only get the horse to trot - which when viewing the video, I was thinking came from what was being used and how it was being used. I'm still a little perplexed about the position of the bit in the horse's mouth...

    Agreed about the snaffle - I wasn't trying to say you were wrong (nor do I feel you took it that way) but just wanted to throw in what I had found in my experince- Just saying I wasn't trying to disagree with you or anything at all

    and yeah, I kind of went when I saw the bit in the video, too!



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2008
    Location
    Marshall, VA
    Posts
    915

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    Thank you, all of you! I couldn't be happier with the insight you've offered me on Harriett. I am not purchasing Harriett for the fact that she's a Missouri Fox Trotter, just getting that out up front.

    I went into this with the understanding that her current owner (rider in videos) had NEVER achieved the FT gait with Harriett. She had only gotten as far as the W/T/C with Harriett. She has also acknowledged that Harriett is 'somewhat' over weight and they have been working on reducing the amount of feed she gets, but have no increased her workouts.

    Also, the western saddle used in the videos did not fit Harriett properly at all! I was only able to ride her a short time due to the saddle sliding off to one side and I was extremely uncomfortable with it and the bit of choice.

    I am hoping that with a good deal of work and a proper diet (working with our vet), we'll be able to get Harriett back down to where she needs to be. While I've spoken with my BO/trainer about Harriett, I have not bothered to ask if he know's how to train a gaited horse. I'm going to assume NOT. But that is no real big deal, Harriett is supposed to be a sound (both mind and body) trail horse and that is what I'm wanting first and foremost.

    Also, the owner before the current owner (rider in video), said Harriett was broke to cart. So, if she is, that is perfect! I've always wanted to learn to drive and if she's traffic sound, she'll be pulling a buggy by this November for a parade we walk in ever year.

    Thank you, all I really wanted was a sound horse I could simply go to the barn, groom, spend a bit of time spoiling and working and then ride out alone or with a group and feel safe. Harriett is supposed to be that horse. And since I've spent more time with Harriett than I did with Pete (Auction house purchase), I believe her owner is telling me the truth. Time will tell.

    As for Pete, we are struggling, but will continue to work through our issues and looking forward to enjoying our rides together.
    Chronicle of My Horse
    Secret Passage Ranch
    **a member of the
    Riders with Fibromyalgia & Adult Re-riders Clique



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2008
    Posts
    4,266

    Default

    She may well surprise you by developing her fox trot on the trails, with comfortable tack and conditioning. It should come naturally to her but perhaps the discomfort and unfitness she has right now is preventing her from moving that way.

    The MFT I've met are very pleasant, mellow creatures. I bet you will have fun with her as a trail horse!



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug. 6, 2003
    Location
    Lapeer, MI, USA
    Posts
    4,075

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    VA Horse Girl - all the best to you with this mare. I got my MFT because I wanted to keep up with my friends who ride gaited and although my QH is SUPER smooth at the trot that keeps up with them, he's 22 yrs old ... so now is just as good a time as any to bring along a newer trail horse.

    It's so strange when a person and a horse develop a bond and then the person starts with a different horse. I'm having to constantly remind myself that the MFT (Bentley - like the car - wide and smooth) is not the QH.

    Here's his photo (he's very faded from summer sun): He was 200 pounds heavier than this, when I first got him!!
    http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...leyJune08B.jpg

    For saddle fit, I went with a Fabtron Endurance with center fire rigging. I also had to get a tacky-too contoured pad to reduce slippage. And breast collar.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug. 20, 2008
    Location
    Marshall, VA
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    915

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    Quote Originally Posted by gabz View Post
    VA Horse Girl - all the best to you with this mare. I got my MFT because I wanted to keep up with my friends who ride gaited and although my QH is SUPER smooth at the trot that keeps up with them, he's 22 yrs old ... so now is just as good a time as any to bring along a newer trail horse.

    It's so strange when a person and a horse develop a bond and then the person starts with a different horse. I'm having to constantly remind myself that the MFT (Bentley - like the car - wide and smooth) is not the QH.

    Here's his photo (he's very faded from summer sun): He was 200 pounds heavier than this, when I first got him!!
    http://s456.photobucket.com/albums/q...leyJune08B.jpg

    For saddle fit, I went with a Fabtron Endurance with center fire rigging. I also had to get a tacky-too contoured pad to reduce slippage. And breast collar.
    No one at my barn currently rides a gaited horse. While there are a number of TWH there, they aren't ridden by anyone except the RHs as the owners never show up.

    Bentley, btw I LOVE his name, is a handsome fella!

    I can't say I've gotten as far as a bond with my Paint/QH Pete (he's 9 btw), but we do spend quality time together and he is greeting me at the gate lately. We'll continue to work on our relationship.

    But if Harriett is all I believe her to be, I'll be able to get back to enjoying owning a horse. Which is what it should be and hasn't been lately.

    I simply want the ability to tack up and go along on the trail rides the other boarders go on without having to 'barrow' a horse from my BO, or pass because I don't have a reliable mount just yet. Not that I mind staying behind, I actually prefer riding alone, but I can't even do that with Pete at the moment for fear of being unseated and left alone. *scarey*

    So, I'll post pictures of Harriett (finger's crossed - she should arrive this Saturday) as soon as she gets here and I've had the chance to ride her with my BO/Trainer present and in a properly fitted saddle and bit/bridle.

    THANK YOU again, all of you! I'm excited beyond belief!


    ~Kerri, Pete, & Harriett
    **still very much in love with Pete
    Chronicle of My Horse
    Secret Passage Ranch
    **a member of the
    Riders with Fibromyalgia & Adult Re-riders Clique



  20. #20
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2007
    Location
    Napanee ON
    Posts
    3,885

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    That horse is OBESE. Diet needed, looks very sweet though.



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