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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2007
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    126

    Default driving with idiots - rant

    How do you politely tell JOE cowboy guy not to come up behind your green driving pony without coming unglued.

    Little history, went out with some friends carting today, 1 horse 2 minis, everything was fine, my little greenie was cruzing along like a champ and the "cowboy" guy catches up with us OUTTA NOWHERE and scares the crap out of my mini. This is the 2nd time he has done this. Once my mini is upset it takes a miracle to calm him back down as well, he is constantly looking for the giant paint crazy horse to run him over. The freeking guy just doesn't get that even tho they are small, number 1 they and me can get hurt and number 2 get some sense will ya?

    I pretty much lost it on him today and he is like HUH? I know, don't cart with them any more but they are the only ones in the area to go out with at the moment.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 11, 2004
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    6,776

    Default

    Better no company than bad company.

    Make it clear to this pinhead what you need, you don't need to be polite....and if he can't provide it, tell him to stay away while you're driving.

    You can always go out with friends on horseback vs. a weenie with a cart.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2004
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    1,710

    Default

    Take your mini and get thee to a padded room. Drive around in the padded room.

    When you take a horse in public you better have it broke or accept that shit happens. Use the experience as a training experience and get on with life. Lf



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2008
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    4,266

    Default

    This guy's a friend of yours? Sounds a little boisterous. Maybe different company on your rides/drives would work better. Or wait til he's ahead of you and not paying attention and whip your minis into a frenzy and come up like the devil on his tail.

    I do find I prefer compatible companions for group riding/driving. Just more pleasant when everyone has the same preferences.

    ETA - just saw LF's post - that's not a bad idea, actually. If Joe cowboy will reliably run madly past you, you can practice how to handle your horses in that situation... if you ask him to do it again enough times he might get tired of it, too!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2002
    Location
    Florida,
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    3,005

    Default

    Unfortunately as there are idiots out there, LF is right. You cannot control John Q Public. Particularly the stupid ones. But it comes down to a training opportunity.

    This kinds of things happen all the time. Today on the trail--two of us riding encountered 5 dirt bikes. My buddy;s horse had a complete melt down. Looker did pretty well until the fourth bike did a wheelie as they accelerated away from us. Then the last bike stopped and shut his off. We walked up and Looker wanted to check it out. She was doing okay until the guy took off his helmet. She just couldn;t deal with the fact his head came off!!!!

    Good luck and try to use the cowboy as a training opportunity!!!

    It is really the same thing as when we are driving out on the trails and encounter a riding horse that is not familar with a cart. Most riders will ask if they can bring their horse closer. Always willing to oblige.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2008
    Location
    Australia
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    597

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Cartfall View Post
    Looker did pretty well until the fourth bike did a wheelie as they accelerated away from us. Then the last bike stopped and shut his off. We walked up and Looker wanted to check it out. She was doing okay until the guy took off his helmet. She just couldn't deal with the fact his head came off!!!!
    My neighbour has dirt bikes, and some idiots always ride down the main road when I am, and rev their bikes, do wheelies, what ever they can to try and get Taffy to spazz out.

    But they don't realize he's had 2 years of desensitization to bikes, plus being at the agistment centre for a couple of months, where the herd would get brought in by quad bike, and the god-only-knows how many years he was at the Airforce base

    Can you long-rein you minis for a little bit before you leave, or take them for walk on long-reins, and get him to run past you?

    And do you have blinkers on them? If you do, take them off, long-rein, and get him to come past you, because they will be able to see him better if they don't have their blinkers on.

    I say long-rein them, because then you could shorten your reins right up, and get closer to them, and touch them, to let them know your there and that they're not going to get hurt.

    But until then, tell 'joe' to ride in front of you, so they can see him, and can relax, because the big horsey isn't going to run them down!



  7. #7
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    Jun. 3, 2003
    Location
    Aberdeen, NC, USA
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    3,752

    Default

    I'm definitely with LF on this one. You can't control the idiots but you can thank them for giving you a good training opportunity. And I find that looking at such situations in this manner often transmits down the lines and it turns out to be a non-issue

    That being said, I feel you need to have your equine trained sufficiently at home before venturing out in public. Otherwise you need to be prepared to deal with whatever happens.
    Pat Belskie - ASHEMONT Farm

    http://www.ashemont.com
    Ashemont2@gmail.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
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    11,568

    Default

    When I first opened this thread I was trying to imagine what dreadful occurrence had taken place but if I've understood you properly, all that's happened is that someone else in a horse drawn carriage came up too fast and too close behind you and your pony behaved badly and you couldn't settle him back down.

    You should be focussing on managing your own pony and not fussing about what other people are doing.

    By the time you're taking your pony out in company, it should be listening to you and behaving itself. So your pony is new to harness and it sounds to me like it's not yet ready or safe for you to have it driving out and you're struggling to manage it. Sounds like the best solution is more training in safe confines at home and if your cowboy friend is indeed a friend he may even be willing to come over with his turnout to get your pony more accustomed to remaining polite and calm when another vehicle comes close or passes by.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2007
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    126

    Default

    The padded room sounds like a great option, yet I have to work every day so I guess that won't work. I agree to use this as a "training" session however this guy is just darned dangerous and my main thing is why do people assume because they are little that they won't spook or shy? The mini is still somewhat green yes, but has no issue with cars, trucks, dogs running out, bicyles, motorcycles, etc, he is actually a pretty easy going little dude BUT this guy thundering up behind him freaks him out.

    I am somewhat new to driving, with that being said what about taking the blinkers off? Is that suggested or could that make matters worse?

    Thomas, the "cowboy" in question is riding his horse not driving. I use the term riding VERY loosely.



  10. #10
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    May. 3, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwsbongo View Post
    I agree to use this as a "training" session however this guy is just darned dangerous
    Erm why? Why are you fussing and focussing on him? Why aren't you concentrating on your horse's bad behaviour after what is just presented as an everyday normal event. A horse came up fast behind you. So what? Are you driving your pony or are you just sitting behind it and hoping nothing goes wrong?

    and my main thing is why do people assume because they are little that they won't spook or shy?
    Do they? ! !

    I think that all horses and ponies have that potential. But I don't go pussy footing round because someone else hasn't bothered to train their over spooky pony. Likewise when I take my carriage horses out on exercise past the local race trainers yard and they're on the gallops which run adjacent to the lane, I don't expect his jockeys to anchor up just because I'm at the other side of the fence. Neither do I blame him if my horses forget themselves and decide that joining in with that herd might be more fun or frightening.

    Similarly he doesn't slam me for taking a scarey carriage out past his race horses.

    The mini is still somewhat green yes, but has no issue with cars, trucks, dogs running out, bicyles, motorcycles, etc, he is actually a pretty easy going little dude BUT this guy thundering up behind him freaks him out.
    So like I said. More training is required!

    I am somewhat new to driving,
    I guessed that

    with that being said what about taking the blinkers off?
    What about it?! If you mean in relation to this problem, then its an irrelevent question.

    Personally speaking I don't drive horses with no blinkers.

    Is that suggested or could that make matters worse?
    Possibly and probably.

    Thomas, the "cowboy" in question is riding his horse not driving.
    In which case it sounds to me like a total non event!

    I use the term riding VERY loosely.
    Have you thought that he might be using the word "driving" very loosely to describe what you're doing and not doing. I know I am!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 9, 2007
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    126

    Default

    I guess my answer is right in front of me, miles miles and more miles. Still don't care for the fact that there are inconsiderate people out there who don't take others safety into consideration. I still consider a horse/rider almost running over you pretty rude.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2007
    Location
    Jasper, GA
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    2,148

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kwsbongo View Post
    I guess my answer is right in front of me, miles miles and more miles. Still don't care for the fact that there are inconsiderate people out there who don't take others safety into consideration. I still consider a horse/rider almost running over you pretty rude.
    Get the "cowboy" to HELP you.

    Seriously, you have identified a problem, you have a training issue.

    He needs to walk by you from the front. So, you pony can see him coming. First at a walk, no spook good! Then a walk from behind (while you stand). No problem? Good! Do it five more times.

    Now, he comes past you from the front at a trot. He does it again and again until no problem. Then he comes from the back at a trot. From the side. When this is all good (mix it up with the horse coming from the front too). Now mix in sometimes walk and sometimes front. Front, side and back. When the mini adjusts to all that. REMEMBER to reassure the pony, make him feel safe. sometimes make him stand during the excercise, sometimes walk and then even trot. If you need to, get a header to help you keep him calm. At each progression, you want him totally comfortable and relaxed.

    Finally, work up to the guy cantering by from the front. Then the back. By this time, your mini should fully understand that everything is under control and this is just another stupid human trick that won't hurt him.

    This is what we do when we have a horse that spooks at cars. Rather than take what comes at you on the street, my husband and I set it up at the farm with our own truck!

    If this guy isn't cooperative, then find a friend who rides, who is. If the big horses just freak him out even at a walk, find a friend with a large pony to start and build up to a larger horse.

    Remember, it is all about the training. Control, keep your horse settled. Build up to the scary running by, rather than springing it on him. Once your mini and you have this mastered, you won't have to worry about "idiot" riders again.
    Luistano Stallion standing for 2013: Wolverine UVF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IZPHDzgX3s



  13. #13
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    Apr. 9, 2007
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    126

    Default

    Thanks all for the advice, I will work on him at home and with someone I can trust riding.

    Most of the point of my calling the "cowboy" a cowboy is the man cannot barely stay on his horse. So to me that is indeed dangerous. He is not even what I would term a weekend warrior, a mabey 1-2 time a year watched too many episodes of bonanza kinda guy, like YEEHAW lets run around like a fool kinda cowboy.

    I won't go out with them again unless unaccompianed by idiots



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 23, 2005
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    727

    Default LF hits the nail on the head again

    LF rarely misses as far as I can see.

    Maybe you should ride with the cowboy more. Since we started team sorting back in Sept. we have definately become better horse people. We ride once or twice a week with various "cowboys" of various skill levels. Things we recently would have been upset about like other horses or ours throwing bucking fits or strange horses actually crashing into us have become rather common place and no cause for concern. The horse that used to wear a red ribbon in her tail routinely rubs shoulders with other horses now.
    The cowboy mentality is actually a good thing.

    We try to drive our horses in every possible weird situation. You can never train for everything because something you never thought of will come up but you can try to expose them to every opportunity that presents itself.

    Dick



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2006
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    411

    Default I agree with the OP...

    ...NOT cool to gallop up behind a tiny blinkered horse you outweigh by 750lbs., watch it panic, then not only not offer to help desensitize it but repeat the action and be too stupid to even notice the effect you're having. Yes, the cowboy method does work and creates some pretty bombproof horses. But honestly, where is this guy's common sense and courtesy?! This is a green horse who hasn't had time or miles to get used to this stuff yet.

    I'm careful not to race my mini and cart up to strange big horses because they tend to panic and that's hard on their riders. Yes, it's their responsibility to train their horses. Nevertheless, I can help by allowing a slow introduction so no one is put in danger.

    Leia
    Hey look, I joined ANOTHER forum! And you thought horses were addictive.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
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    24,408

    Default

    In the USA, we do have a lot of people who quite deliberately will run up on you out on the trails or tracks. Here, we have a lot of trails in thick woods, and you often can't hear someone til they're right on top of you.

    They don't check to see if it's a beginner rider, or a child on a lead line or some old timers; if some panic ensues or a rider falls or a driver falls, they would think it was funny and ridicule the person for their poor skills, and ride away. Seen that.

    I've heard of a few fatalities when people like this ran up on someone. There is, in fact, something of a limit to how well you can train your horse to not injure you or 'behave' and 'be obedient' if he's broadsided and knocked over or you get slammed into a tree.

    If the other riders break to a walk for a minute or two to pass the others, they won't die and everyone would probably be happy.

    I'm not excusing poor horsemanship or taking an untrained horse out in public. But as always, there is another side to it. It's not exactly great horsemanship to run up on an unknown group, either.

    We're avoiding the tracks and trails til we have more training under our belts. Having had my horse hit by a snowmobile on a riding only trail, with not a good outcome, I do know things can happen.

    Thing is, it's pretty hard to teach the horse to tolerate things on a trail if you aren't able to get out on the trail because he's not ready! Something of a Catch 22. All you can really do is attempt to find a YFZ (yayhoo-free one). Horses react differently at home than they do out on a trail. There's a limit to how effective it is to acclimate horses to changes on the trail by schooling at home, even though obedience is a habit they learn at home first. I can do a thousand halts on the paths around my farm, and have my neighbor go by on a familiar horse...there's a difference when one is in an unfamiliar place.
    Last edited by slc2; Jan. 20, 2009 at 08:00 AM.



  17. #17
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    Apr. 9, 2007
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    126

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hobbyhorse23 View Post
    ...NOT cool to gallop up behind a tiny blinkered horse you outweigh by 750lbs., watch it panic, then not only not offer to help desensitize it but repeat the action and be too stupid to even notice the effect you're having. Yes, the cowboy method does work and creates some pretty bombproof horses. But honestly, where is this guy's common sense and courtesy?! This is a green horse who hasn't had time or miles to get used to this stuff yet.

    I'm careful not to race my mini and cart up to strange big horses because they tend to panic and that's hard on their riders. Yes, it's their responsibility to train their horses. Nevertheless, I can help by allowing a slow introduction so no one is put in danger.

    Leia
    Thanks for understanding where I am coming from. Little guy deserves to have some good outings without the idiot factor IMO.



  18. #18
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    Sep. 14, 2008
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    429

    Default

    I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Leia and the OP about the rudeness of this guy.

    When you are driving a mini, you are a little protective of them when big horses come running past you like that. If a big ole horse runs over a mini, that mini would just be a little greasy spot in the road.

    By the way, down here we call those kind of people "Ya Hoos" (among other things!).

    A real "cowboy" has sense and good manners and wouldn't have done that.

    Some folks don't seem to realize how mannerly, polite and smart that the REAL cowboys are. They are real horsemen and real gentlemen. Trust me.



  19. #19
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    Apr. 9, 2007
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    Default

    You are right, he was a YAW-HOO, not a cowboy, sorry to offended any out there. I ride western, so I have come into contact with many wonderful actual cowbows, my step-dad is one. He would have stopped to help someone in my situation vs. looking at me like I had 3 heads when I was so pissed.



  20. #20
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    May. 3, 2006
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    Default

    Interesting that we've now got some folks pop by to sympathise about the rudeness of the rider.

    Whilst that might be the case, the fact remains that when you're driving a pony, the pony should be focussing on you and you should be concentrating on the pony.

    The OP might want to note that every single genuinely experienced carriage driver knows that you just HAVE to train your horse and you should really take strong heed to those postings to that effect. They are testament to the fact that drivers know this truth. Those who are sympathising about the rudeness are without exception novice drivers and for sure they've not done much at all if they think what is described here is anything but a pretty common occurrence for which you and your pony should be well equipped and consider as an every day occurrence.

    SlC (novice driver) suggested
    "it's pretty hard to teach the horse to tolerate things on a trail if you aren't able to get out on the trail because he's not ready! Something of a Catch 22. All you can really do is attempt to find a YFZ (yayhoo-free one). Horses react differently at home than they do out on a trail. There's a limit to how effective it is to acclimate horses to changes on the trail by schooling at home, even though obedience is a habit they learn at home first. I can do a thousand halts on the paths around my farm, and have my neighbor go by on a familiar horse...there's a difference when one is in an unfamiliar place."
    However everyone who actually trains horses knows that to be a good driving or riding horse, you don't train it to do a thousand halts or acclimatise it to every possible thing. Rather what you do is train it to know you are it's leader and you won't put it into a position where it will be harmed or should be fearful. You train it to trust you and to know that when you tell it to go somewhere or that something is all right then it is. If it by any chance does a momentary spook and skoot you learn how to regain control by remaining calm and passing on that "no need to panic" to your horse. Basically you do early work at home and you do a lot of it and then you get out and put what you taught the pony into practice. Just like LF said. If you can't cope with that then you're not yet ready to drive out. NOT the pony..... the driver!

    If the worse that ever happens to a driving pony is that a horse comes cantering up fast and close from behind then I'd say you are really lucky.

    Go on the road and meet a load of motorbikes or a huge jugernaut with air brakes. Go to a wedding and come across popping confetti, flash cameras, champagne corks and bagpipes. Or on a pleasure drive in the woods and come across a load of sled dogs practicing for racing with wheeled carts! (yes it's happened to me!) Go in a show ring and you get people wheeling up behind you and circling to stay out of the way or a small pony standing superbly still as the coaching class team of 4 enter at canter with the horn blowing. Or if you're really "unlucky" like my last experience at the Royal Show be next to a full battallion of the mounted royal artilliary! With a mass of horses at full gallop and then firing off a 21 gun salute. And you know, not a single driving horse messed about.

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...ow/41dere2.jpg

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