The western saddle distributes weight over a greater area. The english saddle may fit her fine but might be putting too much pressure on an area that is bothering her. It does sound like a pain issue. How are her hocks?
When they grab the bit and go like that, it lowers their back even more which can then cause more pain. Also they can have pain on the underside of their neck, where the neck attaches to the chest, from throwing their head up and charging forward.
"Uh, if you're going to try that, shouldn't you unplug it first?"
In the video itself, she is not wearing a flash. In the still photo before the video she is. That pic. was taken months ago.
They continued to breed that mare because of:
2. cutting horses are supposed to be tempered. they cut better, although about 70% of them use their "anger" towards to cow, not the handler.
Back home, a friend and trainer of ours had taken in an 8 mo. old colt bred for cutting as a boarder. This little guy was rank, and just about unhandable. The owners wanted him that way. He was a peptoboonsmal grandson I believe. Now he's 2 and sweeping the board... still just about unhandable though. But, when he cuts... he cuts and wins.
Since we took over as management, we did not breed this mare. We kept her open, and put her up for sale.
We do not own any of these horses. My husband and I just manage the place. We're only allowed to call a vet. for extreme emergencies. As of right now, the amount still owed to the vet (which is from last springs casterations) was over $1000.
She only really acts like this in the indoor arena too... In the outdoor she's fairly quiet unless the cattle spook her.
She did bolt with me a week ago when we were out riding in the pasture, but she ran straight to the barn then stopped. It's not like she just had "I have to get out of here" on her mind. She had a motive.
I'll see what the weather is like the next couple of days and try to get a new video of her in the outdoor. Although, given the coldness of the air we may be going western. I can wear more layers that way!
Her mom has the illest disposition ever and passes that on to all of her offspring. From the moment she has them, she teaches them to stay away from us and if we get too close to get deffensive. They all have the, "i hate you" attitude. They have all tried their best at some point to avoid the whole riding issue. They buck, bolt, rear, bite, strike... etc.
Please tell me you/they've stopped breeding the dam?
I normally am the one that tends to put most of these things into "behavoiral" issues. However, we had a nice gelding, taht would normally go along quietly and calmly. He very suddenly got acting up BADLY, trying to buck, getting very fussy with head, pulling on reins and cocking head sideways. After a few weeks of this not resolving in spite of several things we tried, I had vet check his teeth. He had bad hooks and one had cread a sore inside his cheek. I stringly suggest having teeth checked when behavoir suddenly changes
Your probably pregnant mare has suddenly taken to bucking and bolting? Hmmmm, that couldn't possibly be from a change in how the saddle fits her due to the changes in her body, now could it? I don't care what kind of saddle you're using, what the tree is, or anything else. If it doesn't FIT HER, it's going to be painful for her. Even the best quality, most expensive saddle in the world won't fit every horse. She's telling you something hurts. Either figure it out, or STOP RIDING her.
Another one who thinks this mare is uncomfortable and possibly in her back. If she was mounted, the gelding/ridgeling could have come down hard on her back and/or knocked her around a bit.
If you watch the video, she is a bit hollow from the start but really starts anticipating before the rider asks for the canter and gets hollow/above the bit in anticipation of the canter each time. That to me CLEARLY looks like she's anticipating pain and trying to evade it... during the trot portions she's much more willing and happy.
It could be that the saddle somehow pinches but only at the canter. Hard to say because of the quality of the video, but I don't think the saddle fits well. Right after the rider has her do a turn on the haunches by the steer skull (boy, isn't that a weird thing to describe about a video of a dressage/jumper prospect) the rider hitches himself up. The saddle goes up with him-- about an inch or two off the mare's back. If the saddle is so loose back there that the rider posting up makes the saddle move off the horse's back, then there's no way the weight is equally distributed along the horse's back with that saddle. I am guessing the saddle is tight in the pommel and pinching up front. If the saddle moves along with the rider, then it makes sense that the mare objects at the canter because this rider does a fair amount of bouncing when he's cantering. Rider is sitting WAY in the backseat of the saddle with his legs skiing out in front of him, allowing the weight to be focused on the back of the saddle. Doesn't help if the saddle is already a poor fit and he's throwing his weight back and forth as he goes.
Or perhaps she's objecting to the rider who tends to slam around on her back a bunch in the transition and then proceeds to bounce all the way down to the jump and then not release her with his body. I think after a few "training sessions" like that, any horse would have a sore back and/or an existing problem would be exasperated. That's a pretty surefire way to teach a horse to be hollow and evade the bit. How old is she? How fit? If she has little topline, it's going to be hard for her to carry a large unbalanced rider, let alone one who is jumping and having difficulty himself.
I don't think riding this horse without getting to the bottom of the pain issues is doing her any favors. I have a gelding with serious back issues. Sometimes you can press HARD down his back and he doesn't react. That does NOT mean he's not uncomfortable under saddle and with the weight of a rider. If you can't/won't have the vet out to check her over-- then please give her a riding break and don't rachet up the gimmicks. Honestly, right now you have what looks like a willing, nice mare who is telling you "ouch" when you ask for the canter. If you keep this up, you'll have an ouchy mare whose patience has run thin and who isn't nice.
Last edited by vxf111; Jan. 21, 2009 at 05:00 PM.
Reason: Looks like today was a spelling optional day for me!
So you can't take her to the vet to see if she's pregnant or lame because you owe the vet $1000 from last year?
My suggestion is to stop having your husband ride her and stop riding her over fences at all. She is probably running away because she is being snatched in the mouth. You want to stick a kimberwicke and a set of drawreins on her and you'll ruin her more and you might even get her to start rearing.
My suggestions are:
PAY your vet then have him check her out
Pay a trainer to put a few months on her so she has some nice correct riding.
I watched some other videos. Every horse who is "jumped" through the "grid" by this rider shows some anticipation and tension about having to do it because the rider doesn't release and bounces back on them as they try to negotiate the jump. There's a video entitled something like "first ride in English tack" and this rider is "jumping" that horse through the "grid." He actually sits DOWN on that horse as it tries to jump. Talk about punishing a horse for trying to do what you ask!
I would recommend, in addition to getting the vet out, that you think about having the horses started over fences by someone with more experience who can do it right. Instead of making jumping a "ho hum" kind of thing, this kind of riding is going to turn it into an ordeal and a problem. You are lucky, it looks like most of the horses are really tolerant creatures and trying to do the best they can. I don't think they'll keep that attitude if they keep being asked to jump by someone who in effect punishes them physically when they try to comply. How would you like it if someone told you to sit down and then smacked you when you did it? How many times would you keep sitting down before you developed an attitude about it?
Is that the same saddle on all those horses? I really doubt it fits ALL of them without any padding or accomodation. If you're running a training operation, that includes spending money on the vet and saddle fitter from time to time. It's money well spent. Because if the horses go around the way they do now, I don't see how they're going to sell. Get them checked over, get the tack squared away, and get them trained correctly and you'll be much better off.
If your husband has never ridden english why do you have him jumping all these horses? Sell them as western horses or put them in english training, a bad video over fences is even worse then a horse that has never jumped a fence.