Ok, so I have this mare... well she's not really mine, but I consider he to be.
goldseeker, why are you riding the "runaway" mare? Are you the trainer?
If so, and if the jumping video in post #39 is a sample of your riding, you need to demote yourself from trainer to apprentice immediately for the sake of the horses. I am trying very hard not to be too harsh, but you are doing more harm than good.
If you came to me and professed to being a trainer, and I caught you riding my horse like that, not only would you lose me as a client, I would make sure others knew that your were misrepresenting yourself. There are many, many trainers out there who are making a good living cleaning up the mess made by greenies who overface themselves.
I'm sure I've made you good and mad - that was my intent, and hopefully you will catch your breath long enough to stop and think about this. You need to stop riding these horses and get some lessons. I'm no world-class rider, I'll be the first to admit it. But at least I am self-aware enough to NOT hang a "trainer" shingle on the door.
That jumping vid with the paint literally made me gasp. I couldn't watch it all the way through.
Please think about what we are saying. For the horses' sake.
"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world." ~ Jack Layton
Take this for what it's worth, I may be totally wrong.
But I understood the situation to be that goldseeker is the barn manager for owners who won't pay the bills. The owner of this horse hasn't paid the vet bill, and I know first hand what it's like trying to get a vet out to see a horse if it 1) doesn't belong to you unless it's dying and 2) the owners have stacks of vet bills unpaid. Yes, I've been in that situation, and it's tough! The OP really has no say in the vet situation unless she choose to pay herself, and not her horse, I wouldn't really do it. I'm with the throw her out for 30 days camp.
Also, it sounds to me, like the owners of these horses are out of money and trying to do a herd dispersal, and out of the goodness of her heart the OP is breaking these horses to get them marketable. She clearly states she doesn't own them, since she is in charge of marketing them she made the GREAT decision not to rebreed the dam. I really think the OP is trying to do what's best by these horses, and at least making them 4-H ready, albeit not the best professional job at it, but she's trying to give these guys a better shot. Never did I read that she claimed to be a trainer (although I may have missed and I'm sure someone will point it out if I did).
Give her a bit of a break, in tough times, I think she's doing what she can.
Fourth N' Goal Training LLC.
~Specializing in Mom and Kid Approved Equitation and Jumper Horses
If she is trying to get them salable, she needs to avoid jumping them. If she doesn't know how to ride English (and she appears not to in the video in 39) she needs to stick with what she knows. The horses are getting hit in the back and in the mouth, which isn't conducive to good jumping in any way, shape, or form. A green rider teaching a green horse to jump is just ASKING for trouble.
If she can't get the vet out and the horse has pain issues, then she really does need to turn that horse out for a while.
ETA: Watched the initial video -- rider needs to raise the stirrups by several holes, get off her back, and get out of her mouth. She jerks her head up after the fence because she is getting hit HARD. I don't know about other times, but it looks like that's the reason in this video.
If she is trying to get them salable, she needs to avoid jumping them. If she doesn't know how to ride English (and she appears not to in the video in 39) she needs to stick with what she knows.
That's interesting, as she intimated to Lori that she was headed to Grand Prix, and would only take a "registerable" mare (to breed, natch):
Originally Posted by goldseeker
I ride dressage and am looking for a young horse to train that can possibly go all the way. Grand Prix takes many years of training to accomplish, but a mare that can do that and if she's registered is priceless as a broodmare.
 No one does dressage with geldings?
Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 22, 2009 at 10:12 AM.
No. War Admiral is only a boarder here. My husband and I manage the barn.
We do not own this place, we're only employees and because of the economy there won't be any more employees/trainers any time soon. I'm not responsible for the vet bills and I can't force the owner to pay them.
I know nothing about jumping. I never said that I did.
My husband knows nothing about jumping, or english.
We have a client that wants to buy a horse for a h/j and she wanted some videos of what the horses looked like going over ground poles and a small jump. We did the best we could with what little time we had.
I'm not a fan of geldings. I prefer stallions, as what I used to own back when I lived in PA. I'll consider mares if they're nice enough and yes papers are important to me, but not for breeding purposes. There's already too many horses in the world, I don't need to create more.
You can say what you want, but you're not going to hurt my feelings any. I asked for simple suggestions.
I'm going to agree with vfx1111 (sorry if I got your user name wrong) it's the english saddle causing the problem.
This mare is ridden 5 times a week, for about an hour each session. 99% of the time, we're going western. She doesn't have the problems you saw in the video under western tack. She will occassionally throw her head, but she doesn't keep her head raised (like in the video)
Her teeth were just floated and she went 3 weeks without being ridden because she had ulcers in her mouth. Everything is all healed up now.
As far as the video of me with the paint, I wasn't "riding" the horse. I was just trying to stay in the saddle. That gelding is a very quick cutting horse. He will cut anything if it catches his eye and I didn't want to get thrown when he decided to do a quick 180 to cut a cat, or the puppy, or a barrel, or my husband. He also does't travel in a straight line, and because of over flexion he doesn't direct rein very well.
As far as Lori goes. That filly she had that I looked at was nice, but she was sickle hocked. I did ride dressage, but it's been several years since I spent time in an english saddle. I wanted to take it back up, and was in the market for a "flashier" horse. Yes, I would like to ride grand prix, but it's not a top priority. As long as english riders continue to walk around with a stick up their ass acting like they're gods gift to horses, I'd rather not be part of that world. I'll stick with working cattle, thank you. At least the [crap] they give me doubles as fertilizer.
My husband and I are trainers... we train for barrels and roping and trail. I especially, don't do everything conventionally. I do what works for me. Horses are never struck upon, but within a week or two they're rideable.
Ground work done: walk, trot, whoa and back
Put a saddle on their back, lunge them... let em get their bucks out
Then on their back and teach them to steer.
My husband does things a little more traditionally, he takes the time to ground drive them and such.
To each his own. What works for one person, may not work for another.
Thank you all for your comments. All were taken into consideration. There will be another video posted of this mare under western tack so that you can see the difference. Watch it, don't watch it... Frankly I don't care.
MODERATORS: CLOSE THIS THREAD PLEASE!!!
Last edited by Moderator 1; Jan. 22, 2009 at 10:11 AM.
Please, if you don't ride English (I can't tell if you're being facetious when you say you used to ride dressage) then just lease it alone when it comes to jumping these horses. I guarantee these videos aren't going to help sell the horses, they are going to make people RUN in the opposite direction. If you know how to ride Western, stick to that and give these horses a foundation that is proper rather than sacking around on them teaching them that riding hurts. Honestly, you are lucky. Those are some of the most docile, well intentioned, passive horses I have seen in a LONG time. They are not going to stay that way if they keep getting punished everytime they're ridding. Please, you're going to do more harm than good. Stick to what you know.
BTW, I don't think your 3 year old paint is at ALL how you describe. Quite the contrary, from watching the videos I think he might be the smartest creature on the property. What a sweetie! You're up there plopping around, looking like you're literally about to fall off the side just from the motion of the trot, and he's going "oh, rider is loose and flopping like crazy, I better slow down." Then he comes to a groundrail in slow motion and you get so left behind you slam down on him with all your weight and then almost launch off the front from the moment. Bless his heart, instead of taking advantage or bucking after YOU slammed his back hard... he just keeps on trucking. Then you turn him to a bunch of ground poles, the spacing of which is totally FUBAR, and bless his heart-- he realizes how fubar they are and says "WTF, I can't possible trot through these, plus rider is flopping like she's going to fall at any minute. I better stop and walk over these." And he does, and then picks up the trot happily afterwards, heads to the jump and he saiys "goodness gracious, rider is hanging on by a thread, if I go any faster than a backwards crawl, she is going to fall off for SURE, I better slow down and just walk over this or else she'll fall." And he does. And his reward is to get slammed on the back again.
That horse is a GOOD EGG! His first time jumping, his first time in English tack, being given what is honestly the most atrocious ride I have ever seen a horse get... and he just keeps on plugging. You should get down and kiss his hooves, he's 3 and barely broke and he's already earned a halo and one in reserve. He doesn't need to "cut" for you to fall off. It looks like you're not strong enough to post and your balance is way off. You could fall off in that video with him walking in a straight line!
If your area of expertise is barrels, roping, and trail, then do that. But please don't RUIN these horses for jumping. I am also worried you'll get yourself hurt. I think you probably would have already if you weren't blessed to have such a docile group of horses. I don't mean to hurt your feelings but that riding is atrocious and is going to do more harm than good for these horses. Do you know where horses go that learn to be sour and pissy because of bad riding? Highway 20 auction. Please. Do right by these horses. Don't try to do more than you're capable of. I appreciate that you're trying to help out here... but be a help not a hinderance and don't bite off more than you can chew.
Normally, we'd leave this thread open with a reminder to avoid the personal insults and post with the intent of providing specific advice to the OP re:improving the situation with these horses. Throwing a little jab at someone's riding isn't productive--taking the time to explain how weaknesses and problems in riding/training may be affecting the horses can be, as most on the thread appeared to be doing.
However, in this situation, the horses being discussed and featured in the videos are evidently for sale, so we're going to close the thread to comply with the board's advertising policy.