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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2004
    Location
    Milton, Ontario
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    1,437

    Default Growth Ring Question (Not Founder) - Natural Trimmers Need Not Apply

    I have a horse with great feet that are trimmed regularly and shod during show season. She is not sore and her feet have an excellent shape except that they have many growth rings. I know that changes in diet, footing and excersize can cause these but she has many of them. I wish I had pics.
    Last winter she had a few rings but they grew out. This year I am noticing a ton of them. Her diet has been the same for ages - 2lbs. Buckeye Grow N Win, 1lbs of oats, Beetpulp, Vit-E-Sel, Gluc., MSM, Salt, and flax.
    Her workload varies depending on time of year and amount of showing and the temperature here varies significantly as does the moisture in the ground. Most of the growth rings are from about an inch from the ground nearly to the cornet band. She has moved stables a few times in the past year so her hay has changed quite a bit.
    My friend has a horse that has moved with mine, uses the same farrier, is on the same diet as mine and has very similar turnout. His hooves are looking much better this year than in the past.
    What could cause my horse to have these ridges but would cause my friend's horse's feet to look great?



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    1,631

    Default

    She may be getting too much sugar and/or starch. Sugar can vary quite a bit from one farmer/field to the next based on so many things. And that combined with her diet may be too much for her even though it was fine in the past. Is the Buckeye product containing soy? She may have developed a sensitivity to that as well.

    What types of hay is she eating now and in the most recent past?
    Altamont Sport Horses
    Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
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  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
    Location
    The Land of the Frozen
    Posts
    13,787

    Default

    Periphreal loading of unbalanced feet. I've seen it a LOT in my own horses and in others. Fix the trim and the rings will go away providing the diet is okay also.

    I'm not a "natural" trimmer so I applied. I'm just a trimmer.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 16, 2002
    Location
    West Coast of Michigan
    Posts
    36,321

    Default

    IME, the rings can show up when there's some sort of "singular" event, such as (again, IME) a very big and severe weather change, etc.

    With a horse that's done a lot of moving, though, I'd blame the changes in forage. It's not necessarily a sign that something is "wrong", just an indication that the horse has had to adapt to something new.
    Click here before you buy.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2000
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    2,933

    Default

    Are the rings equal in size on either side of the hoof? Can you take a picture (of just the rings to avoid unsolicited commentary.)



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2004
    Location
    Milton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,437

    Default

    Thank you for the replies. Is it possible that my friend's gelding just isn't as sensitive to change as my mare? Pasture forage doesn't really make sense as my horse went from very little grass to very little grass. We feed hay throughout the day to make up for this. The paddock is mostly dirt though.

    I will have a closer look at the rings tomorrow and try to take some pics. From what I can remember they are mostly equal. I am wondering if her feet are too dry from all the wet weather last summer and this winter. I am not the best at applying oil but maybe I should start. I think my friend's horse gets a fairly regular coat of oil and that might be the only difference.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2007
    Location
    NW Louisiana
    Posts
    5,241

    Default

    Some horses are just more sensitive to changes in diet than others, and the different hay might be enough to cause rings. I know my mare can get small rings from diet changes (of course, our coastal hay down here varies much less than your hays up there), but my gelding has never had rings at all. He has been thru some major diet changes since I have owned him, but it does not show in his hooves.

    In my experience, it is not always something to worry about. You can try to keep the diet more consistent, but if the horse is not showing any discomfort, and the hooves are not flared or otherwise in bad condition, then I would not worry too much.

    Also, oil really does not help much. If the ground is very wet, it can keep the hooves from absorbing too much water, but it is not going to help moisturize them. The moisture in the hoof is water, not oil.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug. 25, 2005
    Location
    Northeast
    Posts
    10,803

    Wink

    They really aren't "growth rings" but are just indications that there has been a change, dietary, work load, footing, or illness. A hoof infection will also cause a ring. They are usually harmless, and her case I would suspect the changes in stables, would have been on a occasion a little stressful.
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 16, 2008
    Posts
    457

    Default

    They can show up with change of feed, a fever, or something like that. I had a bloody looking ring show up that seemed to coincide with my mare foaling. I'll often see them in a new horse I buy since they're changing feed.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2007
    Location
    Hampshire, IL
    Posts
    778

    Default

    "title of my thread - poor, colored, or followers of the wrong religion need not apply"



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2004
    Location
    Milton, Ontario
    Posts
    1,437

    Smile

    Webmistress32 need not apply either.

    Thanks to everyone else for putting my mind a little more at ease.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2002
    Location
    US
    Posts
    2,974

    Default

    I AM curious why you would not want the opinions of what you call natural trimmers?

    Boy.......I can SO answer you questions and give you a wealth of info without bashing your horse keeping or farrier style. But if you don't want me to, OK.

    AV2. Yeah, you ARE included in the need not apply group. You are NOT a certified FARRIER are you? I get the drift. Nice way to word it though
    I\'m not crazy. I\'m just a little unwell.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
    Posts
    35,950

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hony View Post
    Is it possible that my friend's gelding just isn't as sensitive to change as my mare?
    Some horses have allergies, others don't. Some horses legs swell from every little cut, others don't. Yes, some horses are more sensitive to dietary changes than others.

    Pasture forage doesn't really make sense as my horse went from very little grass to very little grass.
    But it was grass in different soil, soil that very likely has a different nutritional profile, therefore the grass has a different nutritional profile.

    I will have a closer look at the rings tomorrow and try to take some pics. From what I can remember they are mostly equal. I am wondering if her feet are too dry from all the wet weather last summer and this winter. I am not the best at applying oil but maybe I should start. I think my friend's horse gets a fairly regular coat of oil and that might be the only difference.
    Too dry from all the wet weather? I would not start applying topicals - they usually do more harm than good. Besides, that has just about nothing to do with the rings.

    You've changed barns several times - have you kept the same farrier?

    I'd agree that the changes in hay is playing a role, as is the stress (whether she shows it or not) of moving, as well as changes in footing, etc, are causing the rings.

    Oh snap, I'm a trimmer, never mind me, sorry.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    I'm curious as to what the Unnatural Trimmers will have to say about it. Staying tuned.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec. 9, 2005
    Location
    North East, MD
    Posts
    4,356

    Default

    If you only want to hear from farriers, I suggest you post this question over on www.horseshoes.com. Trimmers aren't supposed to post advice over there.

    Anyway, with numerous rings, I'd seriously check into the horse's diet, perhaps have the horse tested for insulin resistance. Two different horses do not have the same dietary needs, and one may have perfect feet on a diet that would founder another horse. I'm not saying this is founder. I'm just saying that you may need to tweek the diet and go as low on the sugar as possible. It might help to do some reading at www.safergrass.org for ideas on how to reduce sugar in the diet. You could always try the suggestions there and see if the rings grow out without having any new ones form.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2004
    Location
    Milton, Ontario
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    1,437

    Default

    JB - I see what you're saying but I have read that conditions that vary from wet to dry, wet to dry can really dry out a horse's feet. This is the case this winter and was last summer here too. I have also heard that if you have a horse with dry feet you will exacerbate the issue by bathing.
    I have had the same farrier for the past five years. My horse moved more than usual this year because my coach and I traded horses (I started his youngster and mine got to have a holiday). I might measure the hoof and see if the lines correspond with any dates in particular.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 1999
    Location
    Greensboro, NC
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    Default

    My horses go from boot-sucking red clay mud, to frozen mud, to Spring rains, to Summer drought, and don't develop rings from that.

    The wet/dry cycle isn't good for shod feet - wreaks havoc on those nail holes. It's not good for feet that are already shelly for some reason. But if the hoof is otherwise healthy, a wet/dry cycle isn't going to harm them.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 2008
    Posts
    4,266

    Default

    My one mare had growth rings from when I moved barns last year, the other mare didn't. Both moved from the same old place to the same new place. Interesting to hear from other people about it.

    You know you can get the same kind of ridges in your own fingernails, from trauma, illness, or major dietary change? I remember having a few of them one time. Don't remember what led to it.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Altamont Sport Horses View Post
    She may be getting too much sugar and/or starch. Sugar can vary quite a bit from one farmer/field to the next based on so many things. And that combined with her diet may be too much for her even though it was fine in the past. Is the Buckeye product containing soy? She may have developed a sensitivity to that as well.

    What types of hay is she eating now and in the most recent past?
    Ditto - your horse's hooves are most likely affected by a diet too high in sugars and starches for what she can tolerate! It can also causes excessive toe flaring.

    If the 1/2 - 3/4 " growth just below the coronet band has a steeper angle than the rest of the dorsal toe wall angle, you 99% for sure have a dietary problem! A horse wants to grow that angle that it shows just below the coronet band, but cannot if the diet makes the lamiane connection loser.

    Every hoof care professional, trimmer or farrier, should be able to determine this!



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2004
    Location
    Milton, Ontario
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    If the 1/2 - 3/4 " growth just below the coronet band has a steeper angle than the rest of the dorsal toe wall angle, you 99% for sure have a dietary problem! A horse wants to grow that angle that it shows just below the coronet band, but cannot if the diet makes the lamiane connection loser.
    http://www.horse-injuries-and-therap...tle%20Feet.jpg

    They look a bit like this only regularly trimmed. This photo is not ideal to me at all (do not think I would let my horse's feet get so rough looking) but the rings on the hoof are pretty similar.

    My horse does not show flares in the toes nor is there a steep angle at the coronet band.



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