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  1. #1
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    Default Thoroughbred Pedigree for Eventing?

    I would like to learn more about this Thoroughbred's Pedigree for sport/ breeding....with breeding for an eventer as my ulitmate goal. Any thoughts, I'd very much appreciate any input, likes, dislikes. Thank you. http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/apt+to+please



  2. #2
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    I would love to own anything by Pleasant Tap!
    Check him out at Lanes End ,however his pictures do not do him justice,I've been to see him quite a few times over the years,he his much nicer in person.
    A lot of the Pleasant Colony horses are very nice movers,with good temperaments.
    Pleasant Tap also adds a lot of stamina,he was a horse won at both 7 furlongs,and classic distances.
    If I knew of a horse for sale by Pleasant Tap,I would already have my trailer hitched!



  3. #3
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    I know viney will like this one! Family two on the bottom.



  4. #4
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    Most eventers are at least part TB...I would favor Pleasant Colony or Bold Ruler lines.



  5. #5
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    I have a Volturno granddaughter that is starting her eventing career. Her mother's dam was a Radnor winner with Denny. She is by a son of *Abundance. Seems promising so far, since everyone was at least a preliminary horse! Most of the thoroughbred names have produced multiple successful event horses both nationally and internationally, i.e. Volkorn, Palestine, Tudor Minstrel, Persian Gulf..

    http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=-...as+you+wish+wf

    She goes back to the Layton Barb mare on her dam line, I think.

    Princequillo was close up in the pedigree of numerous top eventers in the 1970's and 80's.
    Last edited by not again; Jan. 13, 2009 at 08:04 PM.
    Anne
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by camohn View Post
    Most eventers are at least part TB...I would favor Pleasant Colony or Bold Ruler lines.
    Would the preference be for those lines coming in on the Sire or Damside pedigree?
    Do you see any potential temperament or soundness indicators? good or bad.
    My intent would be for crossbreeding.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    Would the preference be for those lines coming in on the Sire or Damside pedigree?
    Do you see any potential temperament or soundness indicators? good or bad.
    My intent would be for crossbreeding.
    Pleasant Colony it does not seem to matter dam or sire side or linebred....he throws on the whole tall, leggy with a good jump and pleasant/easy going temperment.

    Bold Ruler lines tend to produce a good all around athlete but with a hotter and quirkier temperment for the most part....they tend to be more "my way or the highway" if you try and fight with them over something......so ask and not tell. Folks like to say that BR is so far back now the influence is diluted.....but really it's not. He was such a prepotent sire for type (physical and tempement) that it DOES still come through to this day. My Chieftain line mare looks JUST like her dam who looks JUST like Chieftain.....so usually I like to see Bold Ruler in a pedigree once and worry about tempement if I see it is quite linebred (unless you like a bold but hot and quirky horse.....)
    And exception to the Bold Ruler thing seems to be Secretariat....his get seem to be more level headed. Generally he is preferred on the dam side but Innkeeper seems to be doing just fine with dear old Dad!

    I also really love to see Buckpasser. He is a ways back now in the pedigrees but I do like to see linebreeding to him for a nice looking/lovely tempered horse.



  8. #8
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    I had heard that about bold ruler/nasrullah.

    This young mare appears to by linebred Princequillo through Prince John....any thoughts on those two. She is also approved AHS and ISR/OLD NA. And I would say is very much like others have described the progeny of her Sire. I think she looks a fair bit like him as well.

    Its more the dam side pedigree I'm curious about.



  9. #9
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    You have 2 crosses to Princequillo there which is a nice jumper line
    Also on the damside is Noholme and Double Jay who are nice jumper lines you don't see so much any more....it's especially getting hard to find Double Jay...........
    Raise A Native is in there for better and worse. For better is that he produces a lot of good jumpers. The worse is he tends to throw a lot of front leg issues......so he is one I also like to see "once but not linebred".

    The nicest thing about her pedigree is that there is no Northern Dancer! There is nothing wrong with ND...it's just that it is SO prevalant in TBs it's hard to find an outcross where he is not anymore!

    Overall with Pleasant Colony, Stage Door Johnny, Never Bend, Speak John, Raise A Native, Noholme and Double Jay in the 5 gen pedigree that is a pretty nicely jumper bred mare.



  10. #10
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    To add a few comments to what camohn said: Noholme goes back to the very great Australian sire Star Kingdom, and you really cannot get a better line for eventers. I believe, but wouldn't swear to it, that if you were to look up the great Aussie (and possibly New Zealander) eventing TBs, you'd find Star Kingdom all over their pedigrees. The Prince John lines are well loved in hunter land. Not sure they've made the same impact in eventing. I can't remember what I was doing, but was very surprised to find RAN in European chasing and eventing pedigrees through Princely Native. Come to think of it, I believe Primitive Rising may be sireline Princely Native. Pleasant Colony and Pleasant Tap are always good, but I'm not sure how many advanced horses come from that line. The tail female line appears to be relatively undistinguished. Female Family A2. But the sire's tail female line is La Troienne.
    Quote Originally Posted by camohn View Post
    You have 2 crosses to Princequillo there which is a nice jumper line
    Also on the damside is Noholme and Double Jay who are nice jumper lines you don't see so much any more....it's especially getting hard to find Double Jay...........
    Raise A Native is in there for better and worse. For better is that he produces a lot of good jumpers. The worse is he tends to throw a lot of front leg issues......so he is one I also like to see "once but not linebred".

    The nicest thing about her pedigree is that there is no Northern Dancer! There is nothing wrong with ND...it's just that it is SO prevalant in TBs it's hard to find an outcross where he is not anymore!

    Overall with Pleasant Colony, Stage Door Johnny, Never Bend, Speak John, Raise A Native, Noholme and Double Jay in the 5 gen pedigree that is a pretty nicely jumper bred mare.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    but was very surprised to find RAN in European chasing and eventing pedigrees through Princely Native. Come to think of it, I believe Primitive Rising may be sireline Princely Native. Pleasant Colony and Pleasant Tap are always good, but I'm not sure how many advanced horses come from that line. The tail female line appears to be relatively undistinguished.
    That is interesting about RAN, do you recall where you saw that? Its really the female line that is putting me on the fence. But I do like her type and would be interested in knowing wether the Pleasant Taps are reasonably consistent in passing on that leggier Type, also bone, better than average, average or no bone? Feet?



  12. #12
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    You might ask Evalee Hunter. I think there is a son of Pleasant Tap at her farm.
    Anne
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    That is interesting about RAN, do you recall where you saw that? Its really the female line that is putting me on the fence. But I do like her type and would be interested in knowing wether the Pleasant Taps are reasonably consistent in passing on that leggier Type, also bone, better than average, average or no bone? Feet?
    Oops. Primitive Rising is by Raise a Man, son of RAN. Pedigree here, and if you click on progeny, you can see his offspring and what they have done. He has a lovely damside, and is tail female to Kerala, Damascus's dam. http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?z=d...imitive+Rising Pleasant Tap raced until he was 5 or 6 and just got better as he got older. He won the Eclipse for Champion older male when he was 5. He had 32 starts. He seems to have produced a number of high class and sturdy runners who have been top class at five and six. He was at stud in KY at Lane's End and might still be there. Your potential mare's top side is very, very strong. Many of the His Majesty/Pleasant Colony (Pleasant Tap/Roanoke) quality breeding stallions are/were of a type--tall, rangy, and kind of homely.

    Sorry about the no paragraphs. My browser is being very strange these days.
    Last edited by vineyridge; Jan. 13, 2009 at 10:01 PM.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by not again View Post
    You might ask Evalee Hunter. I think there is a son of Pleasant Tap at her farm.
    You are right, but I had to ask my daughter. She laughed when I said, "Do we have a Pleasant Tap running around here?" She laughed harder when I asked, "So, which one is it?" I feel pretty stupid but there are at least 17 JC registered TBs here - some will return to racing soon, some formerly racing, some never raced - & I have a hard time keeping track of bloodlines. (We do NOT own all those horses - we do race horse layups.)

    Anyway, the Pleasant Tap son is a stallion & the nicest, best behaved guy you could ever find. He lives out with two geldings (who are half-bros to each other) & he is the bottom guy in the field. He is about my favorite on the farm.

    I would say he has nice bone - good but not unusually large or heavy, just bone proportionate to him overall. I would not describe him as overly leggy, again, just a nicely proportioned TB. He has good feet as he is barefoot & sound on this frozen, lumpy ground.



  15. #15
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    The primary conduit of RAN in NH racing is Be My Native...

    1988 TO DATE WINS-RUNS % 2ND 3RD 4TH £ PRIZE £ TOTAL PRIZE
    Flat 135-1483 9 144 135 146 530,999 841,521
    All-weather 13-114 11 15 13 10 39,672 60,027
    Jumps 1280-11211 11 1106 1071 979 8,222,957 12,063,107 (~$20,000,000)
    2yo 18-256 7 16 17 24 63,307 91,638
    Broodmare sires 62-727 9 59 73 60 307,537 497,357
    5-6f 11-159 7 10 11 20 43,092 66,877
    7-9f 46-500 9 39 43 42 363,401 501,891
    10-11f 32-326 10 31 34 37 398,584 549,185
    12-13f 33-343 10 35 34 34 167,491 345,738
    14f+ 38-387 10 49 43 41 160,076 264,113



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    That is interesting about RAN, do you recall where you saw that? Its really the female line that is putting me on the fence. But I do like her type and would be interested in knowing wether the Pleasant Taps are reasonably consistent in passing on that leggier Type, also bone, better than average, average or no bone? Feet?
    RAN: no particular "report"...just years of observation! The biggest example is Mr. Prospector. Probably 60% of the Mr. P offpspring I have seen have front leg confo issues and often subsequent soundness issues. This topic always opens a can of worms that folks post "but I have a Mr.P with straight legs......." and I am sure they do..........there are still the 40% of em out there........but in the end the number of Mr.P offspring with NOT straight legs is unusually high. Plus nowadays most of the Mr. P line horses are no longer direct offspring......they are grandkids etc. so that helps too.....but would I want one LINEbred to that issue? No way. And I blame Mr. P's bad legs on RAN because I have seen plenty of other RAN lines with similar issues. Mr. P is just the single biggest influence because he was the most popular racing sire in a dogs age. The Mr.P saying is "they are great horses IF you get one with straight legs......."

    I don't know much about Pleasant Tap. The PC line in general: most are tall, most are leggy, all have good minds, never seen one with bad feet, bone ranges from average to better than average. I have seen several linebred to PC that could pass for a WB any day (which is why they didn't make it at the track..........the guy that had them called them his plow horses because they were 17H and so big and heavy/slow to mature that by the time they quit going through the growthy fuglies they didn't fit in the starting gate anymore........)



  17. #17
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    I had heard that about Mr. P and have had several good performance horses with good limbs from that line...though all were geldings and not going to pass anything on.

    Ok, here is another question regarding TB lines....I was curious about the Blue Hen designation.....are any of those mares (lines) distinguished in disciplines outside of racing? Are there any thoughts on loading a pedigree with Blue Hens with respect to Sport Horse breeding....or even a particuar female family that stands out with respect to Eventing/Show Jumping in N.A. Sport Horse Breeding. hope Im making sense.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by goodpony View Post
    I had heard that about Mr. P and have had several good performance horses with good limbs from that line...though all were geldings and not going to pass anything on.

    Ok, here is another question regarding TB lines....I was curious about the Blue Hen designation.....are any of those mares (lines) distinguished in disciplines outside of racing? Are there any thoughts on loading a pedigree with Blue Hens with respect to Sport Horse breeding....or even a particuar female family that stands out with respect to Eventing/Show Jumping in N.A. Sport Horse Breeding. hope Im making sense.
    Wouldn't the easiest way to find out be to make a list of good eventing mares and see if there is a FF pattern?
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  19. #19
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    Just a bit of Pedigree side track on this pedigree.

    Y'all probably know how high I am on Sea Bird. Have been for years. I probably mention him every time he shows up in a pedigree. He is the damsire of Roanoke, yet another of those very tall, lanky, plain sons of Pleasant Colony. Roanoke has been recently moved from Pennsylvania to Illinois, and I personally would breed to him in a heartbeat for an very good minded, athletic eventer. Sea Bird is a grandson of Native Dancer, but his dam is from very, very fine French lines.

    Today I was poking around and found that Sea Bird is the tail male grandsire of a stallion named Fair Oakwho was renamed Mayhill, was ridden internationally by Mike Todd, and was owned and stood to mares by Mike Todd, and is the sire of Primmore's Pride among other nice event horses. Fair Oak is FF5, and his damlines are pretty much not available over here. But we CAN get Sea Bird, although I'm not sure whether in tail male.

    SO--I'd seriously recommend looking at Roanoke or his offspring for eventing. In fact, I'd think about breeding this mare to Roanoke. The inbreeding wouldn't bother me in the slightest, since they would otherwise share very few horses up close.
    Here is the JC hypomating for a Roanoke-Apt to Please foal.
    http://www.equineline.com/Free-5X-Pe...or=Y&x=33&y=13

    I'd breed to Roanoke to "fix" the Pleasant Colony through lovely lines, then hope for a filly to breed to a non-PB TB.

    After all, Roanoke is the sire of Tsunami. He is also the sire of a white stallion named Bright White, who has produced a couple of all white foals. So you might even get "bling".
    Last edited by vineyridge; Jan. 14, 2009 at 04:26 PM.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by vineyridge View Post
    Fair Oak is FF5, and his damlines are pretty much not available over here. But we CAN get Sea Bird, although I'm not sure whether in tail male.
    Are you sure that he's FF5?
    The sport horse database that you use shows him as 5 but it also shows Blue Garter's pedigree as 'unknown'.
    According to Equineline that would be incorrect, they have full info for Blue Garter
    Maybe FF27?



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