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  1. #1
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    Default Not a legal ? but ethical -for trainers

    Lets say you buy a young horse thats broke but green, on the advice of a trainer. Then later the horse proves to be mentally unstable, unfit for what it was sold for, be it jumping, dressage, wp you get the pic. Physical problems are ruled out--its a mental thing. What would you do?
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  2. #2
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    It happens. It has happened to me and one of my clients (horse wasn't green or unstable, just ended up not being at all what we thought when we tried her). If the horse could be turned into something different, then I would try and find some way to get it going in that direction and sold ASAP, to cut the losses and painlessly as possible. However, if the horse is totally unsuitable for anything, I'd turn it out or do some such thing, and be sad but realized these things to happen. There is ALWAYS a risk.



  3. #3
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    I would enlist my trainer's help in moving the horse along to a situation that suited it better and start looking for another horse. I would not hold the trainer in any way responsible since I know, as the buyer, that buying green horses carries some risk. I also would not expect any special treatment regarding the commisions from selling the old horse and buying a new one.
    Auventera Two:Some women would eat their own offspring if they had some dipping sauce.



  4. #4

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    I'd sell it.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Lets say you buy a young horse thats broke but green, on the advice of a trainer. Then later the horse proves to be mentally unstable, unfit for what it was sold for, be it jumping, dressage, wp you get the pic. Physical problems are ruled out--its a mental thing. What would you do?
    I think it would depend on the relationship between the trainer and the seller, and if the trainer know there was an issue.

    Regardless, I would try and move the horse on in the most ethical way you can, either a change to a more suitable discipline or becoming a pasture pet (if possible), or if the horse is dangerous to themselves or others, euthenasia becomes a possibility.
    "Adulthood? You're playing with ponies. That is, like, every 9 year old girl's dream. Adulthood?? You're rocking the HELL out of grade 6, girl."



  6. #6
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    Would the horse be more accurately described as:
    Unfit for the particular discipline the buyer had in mind? or
    does "mentally unstable" mean "fixin to kill somebody"?

    If the former, I agree with county - I'd sell it to someone who might be a better owner for it.
    If the latter, I'd have someone I trusted evaluate it for me and if both of us felt it was irredeemable, I'd put it down.



  7. #7
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    JD, are you asking whether the trainer should take some responsibility for having recommended an unsuitable horse to his/her client?



  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Lets say you buy a young horse thats broke but green, on the advice of a trainer. Then later the horse proves to be mentally unstable, unfit for what it was sold for, be it jumping, dressage, wp you get the pic. Physical problems are ruled out--its a mental thing. What would you do?
    I would sell the horse to someone who could use it.
    Quote Originally Posted by barka.lounger View Post
    u get big old crop and bust that nags ass the next time it even slow down.

    we see u in gp ring in no time.



  9. #9
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    In my case, I was the student who bought a green horse on the advice of my trainer, who rather quickly turned out to be unsuitable with a number of fear-related behavioural issues which were difficult to handle (for a 15-year old). We were all surprised, considering that my coach rode the horse and watched me ride and interact with her, and liked the mare a lot. Selling the horse never came up for discussion; although it took several years, I was dedicated enough and my coach supportive enough that we worked through the mare's issues, as well as the bad riding habits they had caused in me. The horse is now a solid citizen who the people at my new barn have all described as calm and sweet.



  10. #10
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    I think it depends on whether the seller or trainer knew it was nuts. If they didn't, those things just happen. If they did, its just the same as selling you a lame horse.

    And "mental issues" would have to be the same issues it had before you bought it and be present when others ride it. If its just you, then how would anybody else see that coming?



  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Lets say you buy a young horse thats broke but green, on the advice of a trainer. Then later the horse proves to be mentally unstable, unfit for what it was sold for, be it jumping, dressage, wp you get the pic. Physical problems are ruled out--its a mental thing. What would you do?
    If I paid the trainer a commission on the purchase, I'd expect the trainer to sell the horse in a timely fashion with the commission waived and/or waive the commission on the next purchase.

    The unsuitable horse is no doubt going to be sold at a steep loss, and has to be replaced at further expense. If a trainer wants to dibble his/her fingers in the buying process to further his/her gain (trainer is already making money off buyer via lessons/training/showing/board or some combination thereof, no?), trainer should take part of the hit when paid-for-with-hard-earned-money advice turns out to be not worth spit. If I wanted a useless horse, I could find one myself for free.



  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Lets say you buy a young horse thats broke but green, on the advice of a trainer. Then later the horse proves to be mentally unstable, unfit for what it was sold for, be it jumping, dressage, wp you get the pic. Physical problems are ruled out--its a mental thing. What would you do?
    Sell it and buy something more mentally suitable.

    And give myself a "dope slap" for making the mistake in the first place.

    G.



  13. #13
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    Ambery Im not lookin for anything really. Just asking.

    paiint, I think the horse isnt fixin to kill but is willing to accept that if it happens. Not 1st degree murder, but involuntary manslaughter.
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  14. #14
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    It sounds like the horse is confused with how you are riding him. I would go back to the original seller, get them to ride him a bit to see if he will respond the same as he did before, and then get help learning to ride the horse the way he was started. Go slower at changing the aids and system.

    We always tell people that when they first get on, get them in a quick running trot for a few minutes, around the whole arena, then settle back to more relaxed work.

    With green horses, you have to remind them to get in "front of the leg" and stay there each time you ride. If you don't go thru that 5 minutes, you can have a horse that refuses to go, rears and bucks.

    They are not crazy, they are looking for more basic aids that they can understand. ANY hand contact (including steering) tends to make them think WHOA. If you "tell" them "whoa" and "go" at the same time, they get upset.



  15. #15
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    Only the trainer rides this certain horse. So I dont think its a bad riider or a change of rider. I think the problem may have come with the horse.
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  16. #16
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    Is the trainer the same one that started him undersaddle, before you purchased him?



  17. #17
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    Not my horsse. Mines an idiot but I ride him frequently!

    Barnmate bought the horse green. My trainer got him later.
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDeere View Post
    Not my horsse. Mines an idiot but I ride him frequently!

    Barnmate bought the horse green. My trainer got him later.
    He could have been drugged. Did they pull blood on the PPE?



  19. #19
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    Dunno. This barmnate is one you dont ask two many questions. ;0

    Im just wondering what a trainer would do. Not figuring out the hors or the owner.
    “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things.” Peter Drucker



  20. #20
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    That is exactly what I thought too! ("He could have been drugged. Did they pull blood on the PPE?")
    Jeanie



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