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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2003
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    143

    Unhappy Yet another color question!! So sorry!

    OK...sorry if this is stupid, but my friend & I were discussing this and neither can find an answer that will satisfy us.

    Stallion is chestnut (his sire was bay, dam was chesnut) - Dam is chestnut (her sire was chestnut, dam was bay).

    Here is the question...Is there any way this baby isn't going to be a chestnut? Do we not have enough information (homo/hetero zygous etc.)? We are hoping for a miracle ...but don't have much hope. Any info would be greatly appreciated.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,180

    Default

    Nope. Foal will be chestnut.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug. 2, 2005
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    2,475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eab View Post
    OK...sorry if this is stupid, but my friend & I were discussing this and neither can find an answer that will satisfy us.

    Stallion is chestnut (his sire was bay, dam was chesnut) - Dam is chestnut (her sire was chestnut, dam was bay).

    Here is the question...Is there any way this baby isn't going to be a chestnut? Do we not have enough information (homo/hetero zygous etc.)? We are hoping for a miracle ...but don't have much hope. Any info would be greatly appreciated.
    If both sire and dam are chestnut you will be getting a chestnut.

    Only way to NOT get a chestnut is if each horse has a copy of the pearl gene and both pass it to the offspring. However that is in a limited number of spanish breeds, GV, and APHAs so it is very doubtful that there is even the smallest chance o that.
    Check out my Equine Genetics Blog! Updated April 25th with Splashed White!!!
    http://equinegenetics.blogspot.com/



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2003
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    143

    Default

    UGH!!! that is what we kept coming up with, but thought maybe some of the BB experts might be able to come up with some magic formula to give us a glimmer of hope. Sigh...looks like we are out of luck. Thanks for the replies!!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    1,808

    Default

    Chestnuts are always homozygous for chestnut, ee, they can only pass on a chestnut gene. it's also the non-dominant gene. If a horse has the E (black) gene and a chestnut, the black over powers and the horse is either bay or black (or a dilute of those). So two chesntuts are pretty boring in terms of color expectations as the foal is always chestnut, but the shade of chestnut is still a mystery. I've seen light chesntuts w/ no flaxen produce flaxen liver chesntuts, and livers produce lite flaxens.. so you do get that little surprise.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar. 22, 2004
    Posts
    376

    Default

    Well.......... if there's sabino in the mix, there is a teeny chance you could get a white foal. That would be oh-so-rare, of course, but possible.

    Mind you, it would still be chestnut underneath all that white! <G>



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2006
    Posts
    420

    Default

    One year i bought a breeding to a very nice chestnut stallion for a good friend of mine as her graduation present. She wanted chestnut very badly and since the dam was chestnut we were guaranteed chestnut!! We were just wondering whether we would get the desired filly. After waiting the longest 11 months in her life.

    OK Born and it looks bay!! YIKES !!! She says maybe when he (unfortunately a boy)dries he will be chestnut.

    Nope he was bay. The breeding farm that shipped the semen said well no we have had some bays from this guy. I just laughed and said nope I don't think so. They insisted, we did the DNA and guess what.

    It turns out the chestnut was exceptionally difficult to collect from and some days just refused to donate (of course I only found out this bit of info years later!) at all so they sent the more expensive and to their mind nicer stallion semen from their bay stallion !!!! If the resulting foal would not have ended up bay we would never have known.

    We were pretty upset (the bay was a Weltmeyer son and not a favorite of mine!) but we kept the foal and he did turn out super and since he was a boy it really did not matter who his dam was.

    But does make for more exciting waiting on a shipped semen baby!!



  8. #8

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    omg bellfleur... Did the registry do dna tests before the reg papers were given?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 29, 2007
    Location
    Northern CA
    Posts
    1,616

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    Holy cow bellfluer - that is AWFUL! Very dishonest of the stallion owners, yikes
    www.MysticOakRanch.com Friesian/Warmblood Crosses, the Ultimate Sporthorse
    Director, WTF Registry



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,544

    Default

    Here is an Equine Color Chart that shows you the possible color crosses and outcomes:
    http://www.equinecolor.com/charts.html

    And here is a cool online Foal Color Calculator that shows you the percentages of getting such and such color:
    http://www.animalgenetics.us/CCalculator1.asp

    And Bellfleur, that farm was COMPLETELY unethical!!! Doesn't matter whether you paid for "the cheaper" semen or not. That was the stallion you wanted to breed to and the Stallion Owner had no right to decide what would be best for your mare without your knowledge. Any chance on posting their name? Stuff like that should really be made public to warn other Mare Owners! If they are OK with doing that, what else have they done unethically?
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Welsh Pony, ISR/Oldenburg & RPSI pony stallions Daventry's Power Play, Goldhills Brandysnap LOM & Alvesta Picasso
    Also home to www.EquineAppraisers.com



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar. 28, 2001
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    2,689



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan. 3, 2007
    Location
    Poulsbo, WA
    Posts
    924

    Default

    About the semen switch - that's HORRIBLE!! I can't believe they didn't tell you!
    Blacktree Farm
    Lessons, training & sporthorse sales. Proud supporter of our buckskin German Warmblood stallion, Yeager GF.
    Blacktree Studio
    Graphic Design, Web Design & Photography.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 31, 2008
    Posts
    1,808

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellfleur View Post
    One year i bought a breeding to a very nice chestnut stallion for a good friend of mine as her graduation present. She wanted chestnut very badly and since the dam was chestnut we were guaranteed chestnut!! We were just wondering whether we would get the desired filly. After waiting the longest 11 months in her life.

    OK Born and it looks bay!! YIKES !!! She says maybe when he (unfortunately a boy)dries he will be chestnut.

    Nope he was bay. The breeding farm that shipped the semen said well no we have had some bays from this guy. I just laughed and said nope I don't think so. They insisted, we did the DNA and guess what.

    It turns out the chestnut was exceptionally difficult to collect from and some days just refused to donate (of course I only found out this bit of info years later!) at all so they sent the more expensive and to their mind nicer stallion semen from their bay stallion !!!! If the resulting foal would not have ended up bay we would never have known.

    We were pretty upset (the bay was a Weltmeyer son and not a favorite of mine!) but we kept the foal and he did turn out super and since he was a boy it really did not matter who his dam was.

    But does make for more exciting waiting on a shipped semen baby!!
    A similar thing happened to a friend of mine, but it wasn't on purpose at the farm, it was a total accident due to some stupidity of the person collecting (trying to squeeze to many stallions into the day, and not labeling correctly). She bought a breeding to a nice homoz black stallion for her homozygous black mare, and at first everything seemed okay, but then she went to register filly at around 4 months of age, and as she was pulling hair for the DNA she realized it seemed like the filly was greyish. She chalked it up to strange foal colors, and sent the test in. Sire is not sire. So she calls farm, and they had just received notice from person who got her semen that their colt's DNA came back Sire is not sire. They'd sent semen from a grey stallion to her, and the black stallions to the other client (who incidently really, really wanted a grey from her chesnut mare). The farm was very apologetic, and offered them foals from their choice of mare and the stallion they wanted on their farm, or a free rebreeding, and they obviously got to keep the "oopsie" foal. The other person took a rebreeding, but my friend took a lovely black filly out of a mare she had tried to buy a few years before but had already been sold, so it all worked out. (And she loves her grey foal).



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2003
    Location
    Columbus, OH
    Posts
    143

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellfleur View Post
    One year i bought a breeding to a very nice chestnut stallion for a good friend of mine as her graduation present. She wanted chestnut very badly and since the dam was chestnut we were guaranteed chestnut!! We were just wondering whether we would get the desired filly. After waiting the longest 11 months in her life.
    Unfortunatley, no chance for mix up as the stallion is my friends!! Any chance of giving me your friends #... we always dread the little red headed divas!! Ha Ha We were so excited a few years ago when she bred her fancy buckskin pony (black & grey parents) to a bay with bling stallion - all the different color combos we were anticipating!!!! The blessed event came - chestnut filly, minimal white!!! WTF!!!!? According to the "calculators" there was like a 3% chance of that happening!!!!!! Of course her next baby was a buckskin colt (sold in utero-GRRR)

    Oh well, seems like there might be some chances for something interesting. Can anyone tell me more about the sabino gene? Is that breed specific? Either way, should be a super nice baby. Thanks for the replies!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 1, 2008
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    55

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eab View Post
    Unfortunatley, no chance for mix up as the stallion is my friends!! Any chance of giving me your friends #... we always dread the little red headed divas!! Ha Ha We were so excited a few years ago when she bred her fancy buckskin pony (black & grey parents) to a bay with bling stallion - all the different color combos we were anticipating!!!! The blessed event came - chestnut filly, minimal white!!! WTF!!!!? According to the "calculators" there was like a 3% chance of that happening!!!!!! Of course her next baby was a buckskin colt (sold in utero-GRRR)

    Oh well, seems like there might be some chances for something interesting. Can anyone tell me more about the sabino gene? Is that breed specific? Either way, should be a super nice baby. Thanks for the replies!
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabino_horse This might help you out as the sabino gene can be very confusing
    http://www.FreedomSporthorses.com
    Standing the colored Thoroughbred stallions Regal Regalia, chestnut frame overo, and White Magic, cremello



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