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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
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    Nescopeck PA
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    1,843

    Default Reporting a "stolen" horse to Jockey Club-Bad Check Written, still waiting!!!

    Ok first of all I know I did things all wrong. I had a tb mare for sale $950. Agreed to deliver her to the buyers with a new blanket. Get her off the trailer and hand them the bill of sale they say "oh we thought she was $500". I did not want to take this mare back home. People seemed like a super fit. We agreed on $800, $500 cash and $300 check. Deposited the money 12/19. Jan 2nd get a notice check bounced. Odd as it was the same state it took so long. At any rate I have emailed the buyer three times (one being tonight, so let's say two) starting Jan 3rd. I have called her twice and gone straight to her voice mail and left a message. I still have the mare's papers. They were not to go to her til the check cleared, thank goodness I waited a bit longer the 10 days. I am considering my options if she does not respond. I will certainly contact her local police etc. But I don't want her to get a copy of the mare's papers if she doesn't pay the amount she signed to pay on the bill of sale. Can I report to the Jockey Club the mare has been "stolen" or a bad check written? I am just looking at options as it's been 5 days and no response at all though I've emailed and called.
    Last edited by aspenlucas; Jan. 22, 2009 at 03:03 PM. Reason: Update
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 6, 2000
    Location
    Amherst, MA
    Posts
    5,596

    Default

    I'm sure that others will answer as well, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope that withholding the mare's papers will cause the buyer to pay.

    Obviously, I don't know all the details, but the buyer could easily turn around and sell the mare as either without papers or as grade. She may not need the papers at all.

    I don't think the Jockey Club cares one way or another unless the owner intends to race or to breed (with eventual registration of the foal).

    Do you have a friend who lives near the buyer who could stop by?

    I don't think I would wait too long for a reply to your emails and phone calls before involving a lawyer and/or the police.

    Good luck.
    "The formula 'Two and two make five' is not without its attractions." --Dostoevsky



  3. #3
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    Nov. 15, 2004
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    Nescopeck PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Posting Trot View Post
    I'm sure that others will answer as well, but I wouldn't hold out too much hope that withholding the mare's papers will cause the buyer to pay.

    Obviously, I don't know all the details, but the buyer could easily turn around and sell the mare as either without papers or as grade. She may not need the papers at all.

    I don't think the Jockey Club cares one way or another unless the owner intends to race or to breed (with eventual registration of the foal).

    Do you have a friend who lives near the buyer who could stop by?

    I don't think I would wait too long for a reply to your emails and phone calls before involving a lawyer and/or the police.

    Good luck.
    Yeah $300 is too much for a lawyer. Luckily I work for a company that deals with bad checks and I realize I can contact the police and that you can actually be arrested for that. Most people make good on a check. I'm not sure she NEEDS the papers, but what if she contacted the JC and said the papers were lost? Forged my name? That is my concern. I'd like to think she is just bad with her check book and it was an error, but I also know when I made an error like that and a check didn't clear I contacted the party (hay guy) immediately and did what I could to make it right. I also want people to beware. I mean I know I had two holidays in there, but Dec 19th to Jan 2nd for a check to go bad. That is more then 10 days. Sad but true, but people like this make it hard for anyone. I won't trust anyone again. Ever. The mare was cheap...but she was a nice mare. I just hope they are treating her well. I did google the buyer's name and didn't come up with anything bad yet. So I'm still hopeful!
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2003
    Location
    NE FL
    Posts
    6,570

    Default

    You can go to your local State Attorney's Office or District Attorney or whatever they call it in your area regarding the bad check, but as far as the horse she is not stolen, that is a civil issue. You need to contact an attorney and sue them in civil court. You can hold her papers until you get your $$, but she's not stolen.
    You could try going back over there with the $$ they gave you and repossessing her, google the laws of your state first.
    In FL there is an additional charge for bad checks that reads something about purchasing something over a certain dollar amount (mostly used for cars), you might want to check if your state has that.
    But I'm sorry to tell you that your horse isn't stolen.
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2005
    Location
    Va
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    5,493

    Default

    I believe anything $500.00 and over is a felony? Report to the police and have them track her down and arrest her.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 12, 2005
    Location
    Va
    Posts
    5,493

    Default

    oops. pays to read more carefully - just reread and saw the check was for $300. I think you can still get them for issuing a bad check, just not sure of the details for that amount.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
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    Nescopeck PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaegermonster View Post
    But I'm sorry to tell you that your horse isn't stolen.
    So what is she? Not paid in full? I don't understand? She signed a bill of sale specifically stating that she would pay $800, $500 cash and $300 check. I've been googling a bit and find that she actually works for a place that my company deals with...hmm. This could get easier to at least track her down. Just wondering what my options are, as I don't want to wait too long to report that bad check and then be SOL. You know recently I've been thinking alot about my mom, my sister, who have no horses. They teach school and go about their life. How much less stressful would it be to NOT deal with horse people!
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 26, 2003
    Location
    NE FL
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    Default

    Like I said, it's a civil issue. Just like with a car or anything else. You can repossess her or you can sue them, but she's not stolen unfortunately. Check the laws of your state, but I feel pretty secure in saying that she's not stolen. Real hard to say something is stolen when you delivered it yourself too. I would probably just go get her and call it a day, if it were me, or cut my losses. It will cost you more in court fees than the amount of the bounced check.
    "Perhaps the final test of anybody's love of dogs is their willingness to permit them to make a camping ground of the bed" -Henry T. Merwin



  9. #9
    Join Date
    May. 31, 2007
    Location
    Aiken, SC
    Posts
    4,696

    Default

    She is not stolen. Report the bad check to the police and go immediately to civil small claims court for the $300+filing fee. It is both a crime and a civil matter. Can't you do both?

    Why even bother with the papers mess when you know you will win? You were a good girl and got a bill of sale and have the bad check. No lawyer needed.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    10,748

    Default

    Felony level depends on the state-but check kiting (which is writing a bad check as she did) may not even have a dollar limit. You can at least swear out police charges for the check. Apparently $300 is a misdemeanor (third degree) and don't forget the charges you're going to have to pay too. Did they have insufficient funds or do a stop payment? I think that might make a difference too.
    You can't fix stupid-Ron White



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2008
    Posts
    824

    Default

    When I had a sale gone bad, I trailered right to the house and told them I needed either the money or the horse. They loaded the horse.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 28, 2006
    Location
    Transitioning
    Posts
    697

    Default

    If it makes you feel better to call the Jockey club then do so, they would be able to tell you if someone can get a copy of the papers or if you can make sure they can't.

    This issue happened to the first horse I sold... almost the exact same situation but a bit more money. I asked a family member who was a lawyer (real estate law but the buyer didnt' know!) to call and a cashier check came the next day!!!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
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    Nescopeck PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 2LaZ2race View Post
    This issue happened to the first horse I sold... almost the exact same situation but a bit more money. I asked a family member who was a lawyer (real estate law but the buyer didnt' know!) to call and a cashier check came the next day!!!
    Lol well...I do rent a barn from a lawyer and she's always offered to do work for me for free....hmmm.... I'm starting to realize I have options if this buyer doesn't come through. I also have close friends in the area. Let's hope I hear from her in the next day or so....if not you guys are giving me lots of good advise!
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 13, 2006
    Posts
    1,541

    Default

    The jockey club really won't want to get involved. However, I do know that they have in the past over owed wages to a trainer. They will be more favorable to you since you are in possession of the papers than if you only had the horse.

    That being said. It will cost her $150, plus a fee to have them notarized, plus the headache of taking pictures and filling out duplicate requests if she does want to get papers and the jockey club complies.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 5, 2006
    Posts
    948

    Default

    the only way to ensure that the papers are not duplicated are to return the originals to the JC and state that you are returning them bc you do not want them to breed or race her. You can still breed a TB mare and register the TB foal without the papers, but if the JC has it on file, they may (if they have their ducks in a row) not allow the foal to be registered. They will not issue dups though. However......you do not want the mare lose her identity or to have less value to the owners, bc it is all to easy for them to sell her at some low end auction to slaughter and get most of their $500 back......and the mare is the big loser.

    Does she live in the same state as you? If so, it is much easier. Send her an invoice-- certified mail-- twice within 45 days with the amount owed- in fact, send it certified to her home and her office, twice in 45 days, with a due date- and in big letters at the bottom of the second notice, write "FINAL NOTICE BEFORE COURT ACTION"- keep copies of the notices- that usually gets people to step up to the plate- I have had to do that three times, once for a board bill when I used to board horses, and twice with clients of my husband's (shoeing) and it worked every time. In PA it helps your court case....and usually saves you from actually having to file.

    Good luck.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 15, 2006
    Location
    Eastern WV Panhandle
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    1,246

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by minnie View Post
    I believe anything $500.00 and over is a felony? Report to the police and have them track her down and arrest her.
    In VA the limit is $250 unless the check is for rent. Ask me how I know.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 15, 2004
    Location
    Nescopeck PA
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    Default

    Well she emailed! She said she was away. At any rate she says she sending a money order out today, yeah! So I'll file all the ideas just in case the MO doesn't come but I'm hoping I'm ok. Thanks Everyone!
    Maria Hayes-Frosty Oak Stables
    Home to All Eyez On Me, 1998 16.2 Cleveland Bay Sporthorse Stallion
    & FrostyOak Hampton 2008 Pure Cleveland Bay Colt
    www.frostyoaks.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun. 16, 2001
    Location
    Los Angeles, California
    Posts
    3,864

    Default

    Goodness that was fast. 11 hours 59 minutes from problem post to resolution.
    Some of these threads are like watching a TV show from opening teaser to tag line.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2003
    Location
    Way up north in Lobsta Country
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    1,967

    Default

    FYI if you would like to know if a check will clear WITHOUT depositing it you call the bank its drawn on, ask for the bookkeeper and tell her you want to challenge the check. they will ask the routing numbers and amount and tell you if it will clear or not. Having had checks that were NSF and bounced too many times to redeposit a helpful bank lady told me this neat trick. hope you get paid for your horse..
    the NOT!! Spoiled!! Arabian Protectavest poster pony lives on in my heart http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o...pscc2a5330.jpg



  20. #20
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    Jun. 16, 2001
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    Los Angeles, California
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by macmtn View Post
    FYI if you would like to know if a check will clear WITHOUT depositing it you call the bank its drawn on, ask for the bookkeeper and tell her you want to challenge the check. they will ask the routing numbers and amount and tell you if it will clear or not. Having had checks that were NSF and bounced too many times to redeposit a helpful bank lady told me this neat trick. hope you get paid for your horse..

    Does it work on the nigerian scam checks?



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