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  1. #1
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    Sep. 8, 2012
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    Hello Everyone! I would love to hear some professional opinions! I want to breed my 3 yr old Parlay S (Parco) x Pilot/Argentinus mare. While she isn't saddle broken yet, she appears to be light and refined. I'm considering between Quinar and some of the L and C-Holsteiner lines. I also love Landkonig and Chippendale Z (but not sure about his semen quality). I'm looking for a stallion with LOTS OF SCOPE, a good mind, and rideability. Anyone have suggestions??

    Thanks for your help!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2009
    Location
    Gladstone, Oregon
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    I have a few questions for you.

    1. Why do you want to breed your filly so soon? She's not a mare, she's a filly until 4 years of age, and then still shouldn't be bred until she's fully developed.

    2. Why breed when you are unsure of how useful she will be under saddle? She may look nice now, but will her conformation hold up to rigorous training? Will her mind hold up? She would pass on any structural unsoundnesses and mental instability. Do you want a mini her when she turns out to be unsuitable?

    3. Why do you want to breed at all? How well is she built?


    I'm going to be blunt here, but just because a horse was born with sexual reproductive parts doesn't mean they should be bred. I think any mare or stallion should be bred if they have almost perfect conformation, if they have a proven performance/show record, are SOUND and can stay sound (mentally and physically) and are a dang near perfect specimen of their breed.

    You may plan on keeping the baby so you have a part of her to live on, but be realistic. Someday, you may need to sell the baby if you are in a tough spot and are unable to financially take care of a horse properly. You may not get the horse sold if it's unmarketable, has a poor temperment or conformation and zero performance record.

    Very nice horses are selling very cheap right now due to the economy, and I'm sure the economy isn't going to miraculously change for the better in just a few years.



    My suggestion would be to train your filly. Give her a great start. Show her. See how she holds up, then think about breeding her.
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzywriter View Post
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.



  3. #3
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    Sep. 8, 2012
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    6

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    Thanks, Jane, for your response! I was told that horses can be bred when they're 3 y.o if they are fully grown. Since you can't ride or train till they are 4, you might as well breed when they are 3 so you can at least get something out of them in the meantime. Otherwise they just sit in the pasture without turning a profit. Plus, if you sale the mare later, one of the selling points is that she is a proven broodmare. Am I wrong?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 12, 2003
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    canada
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    What you are suggesting: breeding a mare at 3 who then goes on to have a performance career, is a very common practice here and elsewhere.



  5. #5
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    Dec. 19, 2005
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    Some where in the middle of nowhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
    I have a few questions for you.

    1. Why do you want to breed your filly so soon? She's not a mare, she's a filly until 4 years of age, and then still shouldn't be bred until she's fully developed.

    2. Why breed when you are unsure of how useful she will be under saddle? She may look nice now, but will her conformation hold up to rigorous training? Will her mind hold up? She would pass on any structural unsoundnesses and mental instability. Do you want a mini her when she turns out to be unsuitable?

    3. Why do you want to breed at all? How well is she built?


    I'm going to be blunt here, but just because a horse was born with sexual reproductive parts doesn't mean they should be bred. I think any mare or stallion should be bred if they have almost perfect conformation, if they have a proven performance/show record, are SOUND and can stay sound (mentally and physically) and are a dang near perfect specimen of their breed.

    You may plan on keeping the baby so you have a part of her to live on, but be realistic. Someday, you may need to sell the baby if you are in a tough spot and are unable to financially take care of a horse properly. You may not get the horse sold if it's unmarketable, has a poor temperment or conformation and zero performance record.

    Very nice horses are selling very cheap right now due to the economy, and I'm sure the economy isn't going to miraculously change for the better in just a few years.



    My suggestion would be to train your filly. Give her a great start. Show her. See how she holds up, then think about breeding her.

    Holly Deep end

    There are certainly a lot of assumptions on your part since all we know about the mare/filly in question is that she (Parco) x Pilot/Argentinus mare and per the owner refined.

    Breeding younger quality mares prior to their saddle training is quite common especially in Europe. Gives the mare offspring on the ground gives you a better idea what she throws /crosses well with for future use. Her age alone is NOT a reason to avoid breeding her.

    If your going to suggest options they would be have the mare evaluated , research her bloodlines and compare them to her own talent..has it been passed down ..does it appear that they breed true throw constant type , etc? Would you be happy if you got a copy of her and do you have the means to take care of them both when things go less then perfect?

    Matchmaking wise I'd suggest Livello fits all 3 of the OP's requirements. Hillside H Ranch had a lovelly Livello X Polydor filly born this year ( I covet that filly !)

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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug. 22, 2012
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    147

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    Quote Originally Posted by StarC View Post
    Hello Everyone! I would love to hear some professional opinions! I want to breed my 3 yr old Parlay S (Parco) x Pilot/Argentinus mare. While she isn't saddle broken yet, she appears to be light and refined. I'm considering between Quinar and some of the L and C-Holsteiner lines. I also love Landkonig and Chippendale Z (but not sure about his semen quality). I'm looking for a stallion with LOTS OF SCOPE, a good mind, and rideability. Anyone have suggestions??

    Thanks for your help!
    Hmm, Parlay S was Silver Creek's now deceased stallion. If I recall, he only sired one foal, a colt born late last year that Silver Creek owns. I could be completely wrong and he could have sired more foals, but your filly would be a yearling at best I'd think, as he himself was a 2007 model.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2005
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    Upper Midwest
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    5,660

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    OP, is there a registry you want to stay with? I assume you are going to have the mare and foal inspected?

    Might narrow down the stallion choices.

    I have thought about breeding my three year old next year. Just keep in mind there are some dangers to being a broodmare.
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  8. #8
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    Sep. 8, 2012
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    Quote Originally Posted by COTHalter44 View Post
    Hmm, Parlay S was Silver Creek's now deceased stallion. If I recall, he only sired one foal, a colt born late last year that Silver Creek owns. I could be completely wrong and he could have sired more foals, but your filly would be a yearling at best I'd think, as he himself was a 2007 model.
    Nope. He had more than one baby mine was born 2010.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
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    7,406

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    He sired just the two foals.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 30, 2009
    Location
    Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
    I have a few questions for you.

    1. Why do you want to breed your filly so soon? She's not a mare, she's a filly until 4 years of age, and then still shouldn't be bred until she's fully developed.

    2. Why breed when you are unsure of how useful she will be under saddle? She may look nice now, but will her conformation hold up to rigorous training? Will her mind hold up? She would pass on any structural unsoundnesses and mental instability. Do you want a mini her when she turns out to be unsuitable?

    3. Why do you want to breed at all? How well is she built?


    I'm going to be blunt here, but just because a horse was born with sexual reproductive parts doesn't mean they should be bred. I think any mare or stallion should be bred if they have almost perfect conformation, if they have a proven performance/show record, are SOUND and can stay sound (mentally and physically) and are a dang near perfect specimen of their breed.

    You may plan on keeping the baby so you have a part of her to live on, but be realistic. Someday, you may need to sell the baby if you are in a tough spot and are unable to financially take care of a horse properly. You may not get the horse sold if it's unmarketable, has a poor temperment or conformation and zero performance record.

    Very nice horses are selling very cheap right now due to the economy, and I'm sure the economy isn't going to miraculously change for the better in just a few years.



    My suggestion would be to train your filly. Give her a great start. Show her. See how she holds up, then think about breeding her.
    I disagree with much of this. It is common practice for young mares to be bred before going under saddle. Many top mares never have a career because of their bloodlines. This mare has good bloodlines for jumping and probably should be given a chance to pass them on, to at least see how she produces. And Wb's that are bred well are not cheap, there is no great surplus, this isn't backyard breeding.
    And the conformation part is also not in line with how performance horses are actually chosen. Yes they should have good conformation but these are not halter horses, they are performance horses. The proof is in the pudding and perfect is a constructed idea and not always right. Buffalo can jump 6 feet easily.
    As far as stallion choices you might want to go with stallion that suits her conformation and strengthens her abilities. An inspection would be a good place to start.



  11. #11
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    Aug. 22, 2012
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    147

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    Quote Originally Posted by StarC View Post
    Nope. He had more than one baby mine was born 2010.
    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    He sired just the two foals.
    Good to know! I'd love to see pictures of your mare. I liked him a lot and was very sad to hear of his passing.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2009
    Location
    Gladstone, Oregon
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    540

    Default

    Last time I looked, it was ok to offer one's opinion on an open discussion forum.


    I wasn't being snarky, or rude as a lot of people on here can be. I was offering up genuine questions about why the OP wants to breed her filly.

    Just because my questions are what they were, doesn't mean I'm off the deep end. I kept the insults dressed in humor (makes them easier to swallow, I guess) nonexistent.


    I stand by my questions, and I'm pretty sure I'm still swimming in the shallow end, although I guess it should be bleached out... *rolls eyes*
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzywriter View Post
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 27, 2009
    Location
    Gladstone, Oregon
    Posts
    540

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stoicfish View Post
    I disagree with much of this. It is common practice for young mares to be bred before going under saddle. Many top mares never have a career because of their bloodlines. This mare has good bloodlines for jumping and probably should be given a chance to pass them on, to at least see how she produces. And Wb's that are bred well are not cheap, there is no great surplus, this isn't backyard breeding.
    And the conformation part is also not in line with how performance horses are actually chosen. Yes they should have good conformation but these are not halter horses, they are performance horses. The proof is in the pudding and perfect is a constructed idea and not always right. Buffalo can jump 6 feet easily.
    As far as stallion choices you might want to go with stallion that suits her conformation and strengthens her abilities. An inspection would be a good place to start.
    Good to know. Thank you. It's been years since I've been a part of any breeding program. (ha! not personally!!! ) I worked at an Arabian breeding facility, and a Lippizan/Andalusian breeding facility. Both were over 10 years ago, and possibly quite different in how things were done.
    Quote Originally Posted by dizzywriter View Post
    My saddle fits perfectly well. It might be a little tight around the waist, but I take care of that with those spandex things.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 26, 2005
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    400

    Default

    I would love to see some pictures of the mare.



  15. #15
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    Jul. 27, 2005
    Location
    Chapel Hill, NC
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    To answer one of the OP's questions, I would not use Quinar on a refined mare.
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  16. #16
    Join Date
    Sep. 22, 2012
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    .................. just when you think you've heard it all, you hear this..

    I was told that horses can be bred when they're 3 y.o if they are fully grown. Since you can't ride or train till they are 4, you might as well breed when they are 3 so you can at least get something out of them in the meantime. Otherwise they just sit in the pasture without turning a profit.
    Anyway, my moral compass goes awry at the thought of breeding anything under 5. We know most horse's grow until 5-6, so she is certainly not "fully grown" at the age of 3.

    Please, save your need for a "profit" for the future. Turn her out to pasture or whatever your next best option is OR start her lightly under saddle. Besides, one foal doesn't make her "proven" in the aspect that people purchase broodmares for. Sure, it's proven that she can be impregnated, carry to term and foal out. It doesn't mean she can consistently produce something of similar type.



  17. #17
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    Apr. 28, 2009
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    346

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    Curious as to what age a mare would reproduce if she were out in a herd from birth with a group of mixed ages and genders as you would find them in the wild. I asked two vets this and they said they'd typically breed at two to foal at three. Not saying that should be the norm... just interesting to note that. I breed mine at three. They're happy and healthy thus far. I do think that if a mare is emotionally insecure and immature at three, it wouldn't hurt to give her more time.



  18. #18
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    Aug. 18, 2012
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    82

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    Quote Originally Posted by

    [COLOR="Purple"
    Anyway, my moral compass goes awry at the thought of breeding anything under 5. We know most horse's grow until 5-6, so she is certainly not "fully grown" at the age of 3.

    Please, save your need for a "profit" for the future. Turn her out to pasture or whatever your next best option is OR start her lightly ...[/COLOR]
    Agree.



  19. #19
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Mirabel, QC
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    Well. Moral compass or not, most experienced breeders breed mares from age 3 and beyond, and year after year without any ill effect.

    It is very well documented that it is not a problem. You mare comes from a respected breeder, I would ask them their opinion.
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  20. #20
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    Chapel Hill and Southern Pines, North Carolina
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jane Honda View Post
    Good to know. Thank you. It's been years since I've been a part of any breeding program. (ha! not personally!!! ) I worked at an Arabian breeding facility, and a Lippizan/Andalusian breeding facility. Both were over 10 years ago, and possibly quite different in how things were done.
    Don't be harsh on Jane! This IS an open forum after all.
    While breeding 3 year olds is often the norm, some of us don't...me, I breed for a hunter type so waited to see the I bred till after she HAD gone under saddle and actually showed...to see what I had to narrow my stallion selection...but then, for hunter breeding, data is squat so bloodlines alone ?

    But I DO get the "I want to breed my mare burnout" There are quite a few " I want to breed her" threads that leave me scratching my head! ...and the..."they aren't doing anything at 3 and are not turning a profit"? Breeding for "profit" dicey at best ...need to prepare that foals don't sell so look at the long range view...and there are risks! Outcomes CAN be tragic.

    That said, I always struggle with no pictures and preferably video. Bloodlines are nice here but around....nice to see the type! But that's me ...picky picky picky
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