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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2002
    Location
    Idaho USA
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    1,876

    Wink

    Several years ago the hubby and I went to a TB sale *just to look*. We didn't take the checkbook and had just enough cash for lunch and drinks, etc. We managed to buy 2 head by talking someone into loaning us some $$$ for a few days.

    TB sales are dangerous places.. LOL



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2007
    Location
    Picturesque Hillsboro Virginia
    Posts
    552

    Default

    imissvixen...go for it!!! I've been there done that with Lizzie!!! I was at CT one night and saw this mare run and just fell in love with her and just had to have her...well that's were the story begins!!

    Long story short, I tried to claim her at CT like 3 times....they kept invalidating it on techincal Bullsh##!!! You forgot to dot an i on the form..forgot to cross a t on the form..you name it three times...I ran up there with my money...well turns out...the owner was one of the board members and in the "good ole boys club,"..so it was not going to happen at CT...well then CT closed down and she went to Penn National...so I got a trainer up there on it...next race she was mine!!! I was in FL on vacation trying to arrange money and ect..but got it done and then I hid her in a friends barn and she never went back to the track again!!! http://www.norsirefarms.com/lizzystonebk.jpg
    Zillionair Cremello JC Thoroughbred & Pure White Gold All White Palomino Dual Thoroughbred & APHA
    http://www.norsire.com
    Live Streaming Foaling Cam
    http://www.cyberfoaling.com/webcams/norsire2



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2008
    Location
    In A World Called Catastrophe
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    I don't have her PP's in front of me either nor did I watch any racing the last several days. Who had her at Del Mar? Did she run under Jed's name then or was she shipped north and run under "so and so" and then following start remained in N Cal so she ran under Jed's name. Cal. Is a small world I bet there is someone ho could find out a little sumthin sumthin for you about this girl.
    I would doubt a kill buyer as that is being frowned on in a big way in CA. Prices are dropping sale wile. People are unloading horses that aren't useful to them for whatever reason.
    If I wasn't trapped in the strangely great white north I'd meet you there! But the weather is indicating I am trapped here for a little while.
    If you want a vet to help with looking at her.. and a mixed sale isn't necessarily a place where a load of x ray is done. I can give you a few names and numbers. PM me if you like.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Jan. 10, 2006
    Posts
    488

    Default

    [QUOTE=Blinkers On;3781300]

    I would doubt a kill buyer as that is being frowned on in a big way in CA. Prices are dropping sale wile. People are unloading horses that aren't useful to them for whatever reason.


    You might want to check out tbfriends.com - I think Joe would disagree - he is in California - Monday, January 5th... A direct quote from horse killer Manny Phelps: January will break all records. More horses will be taken to slaughter in Mexico and Canada than any other month in history. From Northern California at least 15 truck loads. Comes to around 300 horses.



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Clinton, BC
    Posts
    1,376

    Default

    Good luck with the trip, have fun, and maybe get a chance to buy the horse you are following. I also think she will sell for more than the knockdown price, by several thousand dollars. But it is hard to tell if she will have a reserve on her, and her current soundness state after her most recent start will have some impact on her price. Perhaps she has lost her best friend with her maiden status. But she may have value as a racehorse to a B circut owner/trainer, with the hope that she may improve with maturity and lesser quality competition. But I bet that $2000 to $5000 might buy her. Less if there is a noticable problem. More if she goes to auction with members of the existing ownership wanting her back, or puts a reserve on her.



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr. 23, 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    973

    Default

    This horse is as likely to go to the killers as any training level competitor at a recognized CDS show. Sure anything can happen--and those horses can be more at risk than people like to believe as all it can take is a toxic brew of job loss and horse injury and that $10K show horse is a $500 "makes a nice pet" horse. But in all probability, this horse will go to a racing home for somewhere around $10K. The calculation is this: she just won a maiden $12,500 easily by 4. Buyers have to think, if she's OK (and she's being sold as part of a dispersal and not necessarily "dumped") that she could be competitive in a $12,500 nonwinners of two or alternatively that she will win a $6250 claimer, get claimed and take down the $5000 purse. That can happen in 30 days which is why she's be worth about $10K.

    Sorry to get so pedantic, but sometimes the strident misinformation gets a little tough to take on a so called racing forum. Yes racing has problems and there are people involved I wouldn't trust train ivy up a wall, but the connections that this filly has had to date aren't those people.

    And to the OP, if you were ever interested in owning a racehorse, this could be a fun filly to have. She's fit, readymade, competitive if you spot her right and probably OK. I won my first race this year with a homebred and there is really nothing quite like it. I highly recommend it if you have the money and the inclination

    If not, please approach with an open mind and enjoy her career for what it is. Claimers do sometimes get fan clubs for the darnedest reasons. My trainer once told me about racing fans who loved a local $12,500 claimer he trained and basically got adopted by the barn as honorary owners but that is because they were respectful and their genuine enjoyment of the filly's accomplishments was fun to be around. Words to the wise--Do yourself a favor and don't be the one who implies that you're swooping down to rescue one. That may play well here but step back a minute and realize how presumptious and insulting that could sound to the person you are addressing. Honey and vinegar and all that.



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2008
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Pronzizi , the fillies not "all that n bag of chips" for petes sake its a filly who just won for $12K and we don't even know the quality of forms of what she beat!!
    It will be what it will be, don't be such a gloomy Gus.
    Let the OP go enjoy herself, you don't know what emotions this filly sums up in the OP. And in some peoples minds a new non racing life is a "rescue".
    Bad weather bad stock market day..all can effect who gets sold for what.
    People may blow their wad early in sale or she may step in ring while someone goes to take a pee. Its a total crap shot and OP intends to stand ringside front and center and hope to kiss a duck she brings her dream home.
    Why be so pragmatic!
    Get on the horn call a bloodstock agent and solicite the opinion of one who is those trenches in the target area.
    W/O knowing the exact terms of her connections dispersal I.E. reserve, or if they intend to retain under new umbrella and public sale is contracted way of putting a "Real" value. done all the time.
    Go for it



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    472

    Default

    This filly has a lousy catalog page, a runner at 2 and 3 with earnings of only three thousand and change. Running in California, with California purses. That's REALLY BAD race record.

    Hope you find a way to save her.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
    Location
    45 min W of Pittsburgh Pa
    Posts
    3,143

    Default

    Lousy catalog page? Arent there like 20 black type winners under her 2nd dam? Just going on memory - I looked at it yesterday or the day before.

    And yes I echo the sentiment - dont ever tell a racetracker you are "rescuing" a racehorse - it puts our back up, since most horses don't ever receive the level of care they received while they were at the track once they leave it. Sure, lots of exceptions to the rule, but the reality is that while some folks may indeed be rescuing an ottb (such as by pulling it out of the kill pen), the vast majority of folks simply PURCHASE them like anyone else buys a horse.
    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2008
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Left Havens a message to call so we shall all see waht the Bloodstaock agent has to say..."with a grain of salt".............



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
    Location
    45 min W of Pittsburgh Pa
    Posts
    3,143

    Default

    Lets look again at her pedigree.

    http://www.barretts.com/Catalog/catjan09/pdf/85.pdf

    Under the 2nd dam we have a Horse of the Year, Champion Sprinter, Champion Handicap horse LOBO. We also have APPROVED TO FLY, a multiple GRADED stakes winner, who was dam to a stakes winner and stakes placed winner. Going down the page (STILL under the 2nd dam) there are 4 more stakes placed winners and then 2 stakes winners.

    Her damsire is Honour and Glory - hardly one to laugh at, with Stop the Music as the next broodie sire following the damline.

    I am not sure, and I dont have the catalog to look it up at the moment, but I am pretty sure the upset price (minimum bid) is $1k, which puts them out of the Killer Buyers price range. I dont think she will need "saving."
    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne



  12. #52
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2008
    Posts
    145

    Default

    I fell in love with a filly i saw racing at Laurel in 1992. Being a teen at the time, I followed her racing career for the next year in the Sports section and then she disappeared. The internet wasn't really there back then so I kind of forgot about her. Years later I looked up her former trainer and gave them a call to see what had happened to her but they didn't remember, just that she had been sold.

    In 2004, I happened to be bored checking out Dreamhorse.com and just put her name in the search to see what would happen. Up popped an ad for the exact mare, 12 years later in upstate New York. I contacted the owners and bought her immediately sight unseen. Seeing her come off the shipping trailer for the first time is still an experience that gives me goosebumps. In 2007 she gave me her first foal and has been one fo the best horses I have ever owned. I wish I had bought her right off the track all those years ago!

    so my vote is go get that horse of your dreams!!



  13. #53
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    472

    Default

    I'll repeat, this filly has a lousy catalog page. Running for two years in the state with the highest purses she could only manage to win 3,000 dollars. That's pathetic. Nobody wants to pay big money to raise babies out of her. She couldn't run, and her dam On and On couldn't run.

    She should make a wonderful sport horse. Hope somebody saves her. She definitely needs to be saved.

    LOBO: Champion in Mexico. That just gets no respect here in California.



  14. #54
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2008
    Posts
    136

    Default

    Blue Domino you have my repsect, did the research.
    2nd dam was a producer whose fillies produced.
    With that said Broodmare market in the crapper and stallion prices falling shall me have a virtual lottery and see who can guess what she brings.
    Still waiting for Havens to call back............
    Hey maybe I'll call a gal pal @ Calumet she's a bloodstock agent see what her thougths are!



  15. #55
    Join Date
    Mar. 27, 2004
    Location
    45 min W of Pittsburgh Pa
    Posts
    3,143

    Default

    Actually she did not race 2 for years - she was unraced as a 2 yo. She is coming off a win, if the earlier post about her just winning for 12,500 is accurate, so she is not a maiden.

    You call this mare under her 2nd dam (Approved to Fly) lousy? Do you know what "Graded Stakes" means? Do you know what the "Breeders Cup" is?

    1986 APPROVED TO FLY,B,f,Flying Paster 2 15 4 4 0 371,071 20.04
    North America 2 YO Record * 8 1 2 0 195,096
    North America Dirt Sprints 6 2 2 0 65,025
    North America Dirt Routes 9 2 2 0 306,046
    North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 70,000
    DP = 5-2-6-1-0 DI = 2.50 CD = 0.79 AWD = 7.13
    At 2 2nd Del Mar Debutante S. -G2 (200,000), Sorrento S. -G3 (75,000), 4th Breeders' Cup Juvenile Fillies S. -G1 (1,000,000), Hollywood Starlet S. -G1 (500,000), Oak Leaf S. -G1 (200,000), Landaluce S. -G3 (75,000)

    At 3 Won Silver Belles Handicap -G2 (100,000), Linda Vista Handicap -G3 (75,000), 2nd Calif. Breeders Champion S. (R) (F) -L (125,000), Torrey Pines S. (R) -L (75,000)

    I will not call her catalog page lousy in any way shape or form - but feel free to continue to do so yourself. You know what they say about opinions.

    Not only California people are buying at the Barretts sale. Not everyone is looking to raise a Cali foal. There are many, many state bred programs where a mare like this would fit just perfectly - in fact her page is a lot better than many, mares foaling in WV (with 40% W Va bred bonus on top of our VERY lucrative purses in open races). My ex husband just ran a WV bred he paid $250 for in a $30k wide open race - she is a maiden who ran 2nd - $5k for 2nd by a $250 horse gives you some kind of idea how good our WV bred program is. And many folks here are now foaling out in PA to run for the super hot purses at Philadelphia and Presque Isle. Just because you don't think she is worth anything doesn't mean someone else doesn't. But I reiterate - you are perfectly entitled to your opinion. Whats the saying... 2 people, 3 opinions?
    Jessi Pizzurro ~~ Pennyroyal Stables
    Racehorses, OTTBs ~~ 330 383 1281
    Courage is being scared to death and saddling up anyway. -- John Wayne



  16. #56
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2003
    Posts
    1,685

    Default

    I wasn't thinking about it as a rescue but more as a horse that for very emotional reasons I connected with. And it is occurring to me that I could continue her racing career but on the East Coast. But I would be coming at it as a complete novice to the business not that that is a big deal and not as a rich person.

    I would love to hear all feedback on her value.



  17. #57
    Join Date
    Nov. 16, 2008
    Location
    California
    Posts
    472

    Default

    What her second dam did, might have had some meaning in the past, before she started her race career.

    However, she's already proven that she can't run a lick.

    Therefore, any foals that she would produce would show a first and second dam who couldn't run a lick, A third dam who could produce. What a 3rd dam did doesn't mean anything, not here in California, or any other state either.

    I hope somebody rescues her, cause she needs rescued.

    No wonder her owners the Beckers are dispersing of all their race horses. If they all ran like this one, then they've gone bankrupt for sure. She's been a money pit for them for two years. They've probably lost $20,000 in training fees and vet bills racing her for two years.

    Go ahead an buy her, and run her on the East coast. I'm sure she could lose somebody $20,000 paying to run her there too.


    Her value now, is if she is beautiful and will appeal to somebody as a hunter jumper or dressage horse. I hope she's pretty.



  18. #58
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2006
    Location
    Middle Tennessee
    Posts
    4,667

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Domino View Post
    What her second dam did, might have had some meaning in the past, before she started her race career.

    However, she's already proven that she can't run a lick.

    Therefore, any foals that she would produce would show a first and second dam who couldn't run a lick, A third dam who could produce. What a 3rd dam did doesn't mean anything, not here in California, or any other state either.

    I hope somebody rescues her, cause she needs rescued.

    No wonder her owners the Beckers are dispersing of all their race horses. If they all ran like this one, then they've gone bankrupt for sure. She's been a money pit for them for two years. They've probably lost $20,000 in training fees and vet bills racing her for two years.

    Go ahead an buy her, and run her on the East coast. I'm sure she could lose somebody $20,000 paying to run her there too.


    Her value now, is if she is beautiful and will appeal to somebody as a hunter jumper or dressage horse. I hope she's pretty.

    Who peed in your cornflakes this morning?
    Don't fall for a girl who fell for a horse just to be number two in her world... ~EFO



  19. #59
    Join Date
    Sep. 9, 2008
    Location
    In A World Called Catastrophe
    Posts
    1,789

    Default

    [QUOTE=Lora;3781656]
    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkers On View Post

    I would doubt a kill buyer as that is being frowned on in a big way in CA. Prices are dropping sale wile. People are unloading horses that aren't useful to them for whatever reason.


    You might want to check out tbfriends.com - I think Joe would disagree - he is in California - Monday, January 5th... A direct quote from horse killer Manny Phelps: January will break all records. More horses will be taken to slaughter in Mexico and Canada than any other month in history. From Northern California at least 15 truck loads. Comes to around 300 horses.

    New rule.. Owners and trainers will face repercussions. Stalls will become limited or unavailable I believe if a horse last with them is in a kill pen. Joe can disagree if he wants. He ought to be getting tat #'s and reporting it if he sees it ASAP.
    The economy is in the dump.. people are unloading. We are trying to prevent our horses from heading to Mexico. We won't stop all of them, but there is a conscious effort to make people accountable for the horse in life in racing and after.

    This filly isn't liable to go to the killers. I agree with JesseP. So many people come to Barrett's to buy stock that won't do here, but will do at Portland or Turf Paradise. Heck Los Al. Nancy M, Terry Clyde is there more often than not. As is Diadoro from AB. I know they are coming. Just because horses don't "do" in California.. um where the purses are dropping at each meet.. doesn't mean they won't do somewhere else with lesser competition. She's likely a useful race horse to someone.
    Still no one has her PP's.. I suppose they are in the catalog.
    Here are the cuts.. she's third page or so. She has one horse that won recently on her PP's... She's Cheeky.
    http://www.barretts.com/catalog/catj...rformances.pdf

    She has been running MSW till the last start against claimers and ran the best race of her life. She went 22, 45.3, 58.2 and faded to fourth. She dueled the entire way till she couldn't. Tough way to race for some. She might really be a useful filly. Likely a bleeder as her trouble line has too many "weakened, gave way and empty." She does not look like she is overly rateable. Though has never had an easy lead. She might just shine if she didn't have to go an opening 1/4 in 22, 23 with quite so much regularity and be pressed every time, even when going a route of ground. The bleeding and the "run off" are things you can deal with.
    I have a friend that clocks and marks horses in the am and pm. his phone is off as it is his day off, but I left him a message and will ask his opinion of how she trains and looks physically. Knowing Jay she's too thin. Jed likely helped that some.
    She might be a lot of fun.
    Last edited by Blinkers On; Jan. 6, 2009 at 05:44 PM.



  20. #60
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2008
    Posts
    81

    Default

    I think the diversity of opinions here reflects exactly the kind of problems we are having in racing. Particularily as a breeder I always want the best homes possible for my horses when they retire.And I appreciate a former writer's comment that when we are selling a horse we resent the anti-racing factor letting us know they are rescuing our horse from a deplorable life! But by the same token where are all the rescuers when a trainer's back is up against the wall with a clients horse that can't run and the client is going to dump him and there is no where for him to go?......it's fine to get all rightous about not sending horses to the killers but it might beat starving to death in a field. People in racing are looking for solutions to this difficult and often heartbreaking problem and I for one am tired of people who just want to judge.



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