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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 20, 2003
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    England
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    Default Using a Trakehner mare in other stud book

    I am having a debate in my head about wether to present two of our Trakehner mares for Hanoverian approval. I do use a few Hanoverian stallions in my breeding program on my coloured mares, and I know personally how much I like to see Trakehner influence in the stallions pedigrees.
    I have one wonderful mare (HG Solomon x Consul) that I think would cross wonderfully onto Weltmeyer, and I am so tempted to present her for grading to try that cross the once. But I also always think there are so few Trakehners out there, that it is almost a waste to use her for a different stud book.

    At the same time I am about to start backing a fabulous Axis filly for my boss that will be presented for her Trakehner grading next September. My boss doesn't yet breed Trakehners (I am working on her!) but I also wonder if it might not be worth presenting her for Hanoverian grading at the same time, just to keep lots of options open for her.

    Any opinions?
    www.volatis.co.uk - breeders of quality and colour



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2004
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    The Redneck Riviera
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    Default

    I understand where you are coming from and I know that other breeds like/want to use "our" mares (and stallions) to "improve" on their breeds etc, but as a Trakehner breeder I HATE it when a good mare goes to the other breed.

    I recently heard from someone who has a gelding who was registered by the former owner as Oldenburg. The sire is 100% approved TK, the mare is 100% approved TK so WHY?????!!!!!! Granted that is a gelding, but it happens all the time with mares and stallions also.

    That all being said - I do agree with keeping breeding options open, and I do understand the desire to cross the mare onto another stallion that you feel will compliment her and ultimately it is the owner of the horse that makes the decission, it just "hurts" me as a breeder to "loose" another horse with good/great bloodlines to another breed. :-)
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  3. #3
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    Dec. 20, 2003
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    England
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    Default

    That's my feelinsg too, although I must confess I do sometimes use my lovely Trakehner mares to breed coloured part breds, as I love the Trakehner influence but also want the colour. So for example from 1 lovely old foundation mare I have her part bred filly, her part bred granddaughter and her pure bred granddaughter. I sort of justify it in my head that as long as every other breeding is back to a Trakehner stallion I am not being too naughty!

    One of the best 3yo fillies in the UK this year was out of a super Consul daughter by a Hanoverian sire, and I remember thinking how fabulous that the Trakehner influence was producing such a nice filly, but then sad that she wasn't a pure bred
    www.volatis.co.uk - breeders of quality and colour



  4. #4
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    Jul. 6, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sacha View Post
    One of the best 3yo fillies in the UK this year was out of a super Consul daughter by a Hanoverian sire, and I remember thinking how fabulous that the Trakehner influence was producing such a nice filly, but then sad that she wasn't a pure bred
    And just think if the Consul daughter had been bred to the right TK stallion how super the purebred offspring would have been?! I do think that we have good/great TK stallions... But like I said, I know that the other breeds love our influence so I "get it" I just don't like it.
    Emerald Acres standing the ATA Approved Stallion, Tatendrang. Visit us at our Facebook Farm Page as well!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2004
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    Louisville, KY
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    Default

    In the US, is it any harder to get a Trak mare approved Hano than say, an Oldenburg mare?

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  6. #6
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    Mar. 12, 2006
    Location
    Western South Dakota
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    Default

    For so long in the US, Trakehners were the hardest to "market" for a variety of reasons. People thought they were hot and crazy, blah blah blah. Plus the registry for Trakehners in the US was not the friendliest or most pleasant to deal with. Which is pretty much why we ended up with the RPSI. When we do breed a 100% Trakehner it is registered Zweibrucken. Most studbooks, and especically RPSI appreciate Trakehner horses. They also appreciate the breeders.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    Default

    Sometimes Trakehner mares are on the small side so if registeries have a height requirement, their smaller stature could be a problem. I ran into that with the AHS. Then again, registeries have dropped the requirement or waived them.

    Trakehner bloodlines are very desirable in sporthorse pedigrees and I find a Trakehner line in many, many pedigrees of Dutch, Hanoverian and Oldenburg horses.

    Absatz is one of those lines. I have a D-line GOV filly with 4 crosses to that line.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 17, 2002
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    Redlands, CA
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    Default

    Re the OP's point on breeding a Trakehner outside the Trakehner registry ... I did that with an imported mare twice. After the second foal, I was going to breed her to a Trakhner to continue her bloodlines, but her cervix tore with that last foal so she is no longer breeding sound.

    She only produced boys in the USA but there is a daughter in Canada. She was born before I bought Lucy so I don't know how that daughter is registered, presumeably a Canadian Trakehner.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2003
    Location
    Burleson, Texas
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    Default

    I have bred my Trakehner mares out of registry since I had them....to Danish and Russian stallions. This year, I'm breeding to Trakehners only and from here forward. I was an idiot not to produce purebreds along the way. My mares are 17.1 and were imported from Russian. they have some pretty rare lines and I adore them.

    I agree with Annissia on this one. It just took me a while to get here.

    Donna Ray



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2008
    Location
    Lone Star State
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    153

    Default

    I have a lovely, big trakehner mare by Tropez/Flugwind. I bought her last year and I was also on the fence about whether to go straight TK or not. I ended up picking the stallion I thought was best for her, regardless of breed and it was a non trakehner so she is BWP approved. I would consider breeding her to a nice trakehner stallion in the future though.



  11. #11
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    Jul. 5, 2002
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    Brookline, NH 03033
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    1,049

    Default

    It is good to keep your options open for studbooks so you can pick the best stallion to fit your mare. I would present them to the Hanoverians if you have that opportunity. Worth a try. Also, the KWPN does not require inpsections from main mare book Trakehner or other approved European warmblood studbooks. So you can breed to an approved KWPN stallion and get foal book KWPN Dutch Warmblood papers without presenting the mare or the foal. It is a nice open system.

    Kathy
    www.majesticgaits.com
    Majestic Gaits-Dutch Warmbloods,#1 USEF Dressage Sporthorse Breeder. #1 KWPN-NA Jumpers.Standing Navarone,Schroeder,Dante MG.VDL Frozen. Approval KWPN Han OLD RPSI BWP Canadian SWANA sBs SF Holst



  12. #12
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    Mar. 4, 2004
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    Louisville, KY
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    Default

    So for the AHS, are there any pedigree requirements for Trak mares? Are the ones that have a lot of TB or Arab eligible for the AHS MMB as long as they inspect well?

    Caitlin
    Caitlin
    *OMGiH I Loff my Mare* and *My Saddlebred Can Do Anything Your Horse Can Do*
    http://community.webshots.com/user/redmare01



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2005
    Location
    England
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    Default

    Go for it! You can always breed her to a trak stallion for her next foal.
    Horse Show Names Free name website with over 6200 names. Want to add? PM me!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 4, 2008
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by NoDQhere View Post
    For so long in the US, Trakehners were the hardest to "market" for a variety of reasons. People thought they were hot and crazy, blah blah blah. Plus the registry for Trakehners in the US was not the friendliest or most pleasant to deal with. Which is pretty much why we ended up with the RPSI. When we do breed a 100% Trakehner it is registered Zweibrucken. Most studbooks, and especically RPSI appreciate Trakehner horses. They also appreciate the breeders.
    Have you had dealings with the American Trakehner Association lately? I've only been active with them for a couple of years but I've been rather impressed with them and for that reason have dove right in. They solicit feedback and are certainly committed to improving the breed and the registry. They are smaller than some of the other registries and being a non-profit organization relying on volunteers it can take awhile to make all the changes that are identified as necessary for organizational improvement and growth. Nonetheless, the ATA seems to be doing quite well from what I have seen and I expect it to only continue getting better.
    Altamont Sport Horses
    Trakehners * Knabstruppers * Appaloosa Sport Horses
    Home of stallions: Ambrosius af Asgard "Atlantis" & Hollywood Hot Spot
    Birmingham, AL



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 18, 2007
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    4,123

    Default

    I just bought a mare who, while Trak registered, is Oldenburg approved, too. She has a couple of documentation issues (springing from the JC a generation back) that I think might be the reason she went Oldenburg instead of ATA for inspections, but those aren't insurmountable, and I intend to pursue it. I can be pretty persistent when I want to be.

    However, even though I'm planning to ride her mostly, when I breed her, I will always look to Traks and take serious persuasion to go anywhere else, even Oldenburg which is already built in as an option with her approval there. I love the Trakehners so much, and honestly, one of the things I love about them is that they are a breed, not a registry. Being more closed and more picky to me are not bad things.

    I've had nothing but good experiences with the ATA, but I haven't known them many years.



  16. #16
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    Jul. 17, 2002
    Location
    Redlands, CA
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    Default

    I think that with the KWPN NA, Trakehner mares by stallions approved in Europe are considered Main Mare Book mares. If the stallions were approved in the USA with the eventing requirements, they would not be automatically approved. At least this is the way it was, and it would be wise to call the office and doublecheck before proceding.

    Some of the NA-based registeries have reciprocal agreements with their European counterparts.



  17. #17
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    Default

    I forgot that the OP is based in England so our rules here in the USA are moot.



  18. #18
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    May. 5, 2007
    Location
    British Columbia
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    Default

    Personally I see nothing wrong with doing this. Of course it's always nice to see a nice Trakehner mare go to a full/approved Trakehner stallion. But if there is a stallion with another registry that I feel would compliment the mare more than a full Trakehner would, then go for it! I like to see Trakehners (stallions and mares) that have multiple approvals under their wings. It makes the breed look good as a whole when OTHER registries approve them and feel that they are nice enough that they would improve upon their own breeds. Just my two cents on it.


    1 members found this post helpful.

  19. #19
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    Mar. 12, 2006
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    Western South Dakota
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Altamont Sport Horses View Post
    Have you had dealings with the American Trakehner Association lately? I've only been active with them for a couple of years but I've been rather impressed with them and for that reason have dove right in. They solicit feedback and are certainly committed to improving the breed and the registry. They are smaller than some of the other registries and being a non-profit organization relying on volunteers it can take awhile to make all the changes that are identified as necessary for organizational improvement and growth. Nonetheless, the ATA seems to be doing quite well from what I have seen and I expect it to only continue getting better.
    No, we haven't been involved with the ATA lately (last 4 years or so) and I really don't want to talk badly about anyone, or go into it here.

    Suffice it to say that we love and appreciate the Trakehner horse for what they bring to the table. Disposition, soundness, talent. They have been and always will be the foundation of our program.

    We produced the co-highest scoring colt in NA this year for RPSI. He is 62.5%Trakehner, 25% Arabian and 12.5% Hanoverian by blood. He has the sweetest disposition and we expect he will develop into a fancy horse. Our intention is to keep him and show him.



  20. #20
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    Jul. 17, 2002
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    Redlands, CA
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    Default

    There can be hard feelings following stallion approvals or disapprovals.

    I wouldn't want to be a breed inspector.


    1 members found this post helpful.

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