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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul. 7, 2006
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    271

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    Quote Originally Posted by lark_b View Post
    Ok, I'm evil, clearly a bad person, but honestly, there are countless young, perfectly sound, well trained animals out there looking for homes. Far, far too many to place them all. If people would stop overbreeding, then we wouldn't have this problem, but we do. Some of them are going to end up slaughtered. Would you prefer that they end up starving to death in some muddy back field instead? Because as much as we might think that the alternative to slaughter is humane euthanasia, for the majority of the people out there who have to make that choice slaughter vs. dying in muddy field are the two options. The hundreds it costs for euthanasia just isn't practical. People who tend to be able to have the extra cash to put down a horse tend to own horses that are salable to non-kill buyers. That's just the reality.

    If these horses find homes, great. If they go to slaughter, well, I'd prefer the truck and all its unpleasantness to a slow, agonizing death being starved to death.

    I bought an unbroke 3 year old registered mare out of a slaughter pen at an auction a couple of months ago (for $220--over what my boyfriend had said he'd pay for her, but I really wanted her). Lovely, lovely mare... gorgeous color, nicely put together, to-die-for dressage movement with cutter or jumper turns automatic. You can find nice horses there and I am glad she didn't end up French steak, but the truth of the matter is her breeder made 30 just like her and couldn't support them or sell them... I bought mine and then watched all the rest get sold to the killer. Maybe if they had been more responsible and bred one or two or NO BABIES, she would not have ended up there in the first place, and all her breathren wouldn't be food right now.

    The villain in this situation isn't the slaughter industry that is just filling a demand for product--it's the people who breed thinking that dear Dobbin's baby would never end up at slaughter, never ever, despite its roach back, cow hocks, and club foot, or the TB breeders who breed in volume hoping to hit the lottery, knowing they can always send the extras to be eaten, or the people who plain don't care where their horses end up. Fixing this is about realizing that we need to stop breeding crappy and ok horses, and breed only nice horses so that there is no slaughter market because all the horses are wanted. If you're concerned about how high that would drive prices, well, you have to make a choice: have a slaughter market and have horses with low prices, or don't have one and have to save up to buy a nice horse. You can't have it both ways.
    Why is it that the only alternative for the pro-slaughter people is the old "starving in a field" stand-by arguement?

    Why not truck on over to the racing industry and lobby to them to take some responsibility for dumping their junk breeding program onto the public? Or the junk show industry and it's offshoot, the backyard greedy-breeder?

    How about supporting euthanasia clinics for people?

    Dull arguments don't sharpen my sympathy for the slaughter proponents. I have a hunch, though, it helps them sleep at night.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jan. 18, 2005
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    302

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    Northern Alert is my kind of guy, and he has RT in his pedigree. Thank goodness he's taken.
    "Don't make me go all chestnut mare on you"!



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
    Location
    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
    Posts
    4,044

    Talking Shameless bump!!

    There is an absolutely stunning bay registered ASB mare on there, and two TB's- a mare and a gelding who are fabulous prospects. They could use all of the help they can get- please consider taking a look, and giving an equine in need a home for the holidays!
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
    Posts
    917

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    Bail is only paid on the horses with asterisks ... the other ASBs (such as Stars mentioned) on the first page are still available.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar. 23, 2008
    Location
    Millerton, PA
    Posts
    592

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    I must be blind, I don't see any asterisks.

    Someone, please, talk me out of that Molly Mule. I don't know what you even do with a mule? Don't we have long ear fans on this board? Okay wait, it says she's going to AC4H. That means she's safe, right?
    '98 Elbader (GB) - JC Thoroughbred Gelding
    '10 Dolce Latte G - Thoroughbred Filly
    '11 Machiatto G - Thoroughbred Colt



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2008
    Posts
    89

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    Nothing like a loud "hee haw" to bring a smile to your face. I love my long ears. They are smart, affectionate and above all very comical. I swear they smile.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2004
    Posts
    4,742

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    ...and if this were a cow forum, like Chronicle of the Cow it would be relevant.


    Quote Originally Posted by RHdobes563 View Post
    Well, if you can guarantee that those cows are broke to ride and/or drive, you might have some people interested here!



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    3,969

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    Quote Originally Posted by CA ASB View Post
    Bail is only paid on the horses with asterisks ... the other ASBs (such as Stars mentioned) on the first page are still available.
    BAIL???!!!!

    Like get out of jail bail???


    Quit threatening, unless you pay up, these horses will be slaughtered. Why shift the blame, if you believe in that, to others that don't want to pay up.

    So if no one pays, the horses go to auction and are sent to slaughter, who are you saying is sending them?



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar. 16, 2008
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    89

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    If the horses go to auction and a kb gets them, the horses go to slaughter. Pretty simple and pretty much the norm at lots of auctions like NH and SC.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
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    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    and Mel's Sale. Not often mentioned, but a cesspool nonetheless....
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2002
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    Sorta near the Devon Horse Show grounds...
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    BAIL???!!!!

    Like get out of jail bail???


    Quit threatening, unless you pay up, these horses will be slaughtered. Why shift the blame, if you believe in that, to others that don't want to pay up.

    So if no one pays, the horses go to auction and are sent to slaughter, who are you saying is sending them?
    If you have no interest in this, why start this? If you have no wish to help, why comment?
    When someone shows you who they are, BELIEVE them- Maya Angelou
    www.americansaddlebredsporthorse.net
    http://www.asbsporthorse.blogspot.com/



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Dec. 4, 2002
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    Dungeon of the Ivory Tower
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    20,394

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    Can someone give me an update? I thought bail had been donated to cover them all, they just needed homes? (not that that's not a big "just")
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  13. #33
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
    Posts
    917

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    BAIL???!!!!

    Like get out of jail bail???


    Quit threatening, unless you pay up, these horses will be slaughtered. Why shift the blame, if you believe in that, to others that don't want to pay up.

    So if no one pays, the horses go to auction and are sent to slaughter, who are you saying is sending them?
    Dear Scrooge, aka 7HL;

    Where in the heck did *I* threaten a single soul on here? I merely stated which horses had been paid for, saved, rescued, bailed out, whatever the choice of terminology is (and I reused a term commonly used on page 1 of this thread as well as other rescue-oriented threads). And, with the broker that these horses were coming from, he wasn't planning on going to auction, he was planning on the truck north. I also pointed out which horses were still available.

    As to who is sending them, since YOU seem to be addressing ME, that issue I can debate until the cows come home (sorry County) with people I care about. But those who choose to stir the pot? Figure it out for yourself. If you aren't willing to be a part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    3,969

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    So why is the term slaughter even used in this thread if not to invoke fear that these horses were doomed.

    If you aren't willing to be a part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.
    There you go trying to guilt people. People that don't support you or your cause, are not to blame. Those that don't wish to or can't, bail, buy, rescue horses that might end up slaughtered are not part of the problem. The whole slaughter issue has been discussed to the point of it being old news.

    Solution is if no one steps forward, let them go. The "rescues" obviously can't afford to keep them, the people that once owned them couldn't either.

    Maybe you don't like it, but that is just the way it is.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2003
    Posts
    1,897

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    My understanding is that they have been bailed, but some still need homes. More info should be on the www.ac4h.com website. They can also use approved foster homes.



  16. #36
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    Sep. 16, 2003
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    917

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    7HL, obviously, you have a reading comprehension problem. Let's try this again. A group of horses on the ac4H page(s) were destined to be shipped to slaughter (not even to auction first), hence the OP's usage of the word (and our subsequent repeating of it). And, actually, no one is invoking "fear," just stating facts. The broker these horses are with does not pass go, DOES collect his $200 however, and goes straight for the slaughter truck. Doesn't stop at the auction on the way. Now, if fear is your reaction to the word slaughter, that's yours to control.

    As to me trying to guilt people with the statement of "if you aren't willing to be a part of the solution, then you are part of the problem," that statement was directed at you, 7HL, and not an amorphous "you" in the universe. It's my opinion. How you, 7HL, choose to react, or not react, is your own issue.

    And, if you don't wish to engage in something that is hopeful for the outcome of these horses, then don't read or discuss with those of us who do.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2006
    Location
    Bournemouth, England
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    599

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    Quote Originally Posted by Floridarider View Post
    If the horses go to auction and a kb gets them, the horses go to slaughter. Pretty simple and pretty much the norm at lots of auctions like NH and SC.
    Actually, at least at some auctions, the kill buyers will buy the horses out of the loose pens that they think they can turn around for more money as riding horses, and if they can do that at the next auction they will happily do so. Maybe your auctions are different. It's not as easy as kill buyer --> always straight truck to slaughter.
    Lark B
    socialwstudent@gmail.com
    _________



  18. #38
    Join Date
    Oct. 31, 2004
    Posts
    4,742

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    7HL,

    What you need to keep in mind is that there is a variety of opinions in this forum. Because you don't care for what she is sharing doesn't mean that others don't appreciate it and agree. Why do you persist in brow beating her? She said what she said, you don't like it, oh well. I don't like that you keep going on about it either. How long do we go on about you disagree, I disagree, she disagrees, SO WHAT!? Can't you just respect that these are her thoughts and some of us would like to hear them? Not everyone starts a thread for every single COTHer, that would be impossible to please all of us. But as soon as the word slaughter is in the title or might be in the content there's a few COTHers that feel compelled to jump in and attack the op, for crying out loud, it's just ridiculous.

    Those of us that are anti slaughter also have a right to try to reach out to each other but we can't even share a thread without being jumped all over by the pro slaughters. We just want to share some information but NOOOOO, can't do that, our threads have to be nitpicked to death. If you don't like what she wrote, no one is forcing you to read it. Have a little common decency to allow us to share without badgering us all the time. If anyone has information to share about this subject that is anti slaughter and doesn't want to be harrassed you are welcome to email me, don't PM me because my inbox is full.

    GEEZ

    Why do we all have to agree just to have a little peace?



    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    So why is the term slaughter even used in this thread if not to invoke fear that these horses were doomed.

    There you go trying to guilt people. People that don't support you or your cause, are not to blame. Those that don't wish to or can't, bail, buy, rescue horses that might end up slaughtered are not part of the problem. The whole slaughter issue has been discussed to the point of it being old news.

    Solution is if no one steps forward, let them go. The "rescues" obviously can't afford to keep them, the people that once owned them couldn't either.

    Maybe you don't like it, but that is just the way it is.



  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep. 16, 2003
    Posts
    917

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    And gosh, Susan, 7HL is attacking me, not even the OP - and all I was doing was trying to clarify regarding a situation I knew something about and would normally have just read and not commented on. I too had had the confusion over which horses were directly slaughter bound and which were auction bound and because I had received the answer, thought I'd share with those who wanted to know. Now, I'm in the position of being attacked for presenting information and accused of attempting to make people feel guilty.

    7HL - take a chill pill.



  20. #40
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
    Location
    TX
    Posts
    39,978

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    This forum is COTH and has much latitude on what all is discussed, but it has also become COTH rescue central, which I am not sure was the intention of this site.

    "Rescue" as individuals or groups is something that can be good or not so good, as we all have seen time and again.
    There are many questions about what is rescue, who and how rescues and benefits from it.

    Honestly, a rescue effort here or there is part of most animal sites, be it horses or mice, but it does seem a little over the top the way threads go about it all the time here and yes, they are about guilting many that really have other horse needs than any one horse out there that someone said needs rescuing into buying them.

    Very nice that some feel like aquiring their next horse thru a "rescue" effort, but in reality, we are just playing musical chairs with horses when buying one talked about in the rescue threads here, when maybe we would have been better buying a more appropiate horse locally.

    If COTH is going to keep as rescue central, I think that a forum just for these that follow such would sure be good, as has been mentioned, if this is what COTH is to keep functioning for, as it has for long time now.
    In a way, it would define that COTH is after all a rescue center and so those that may not agree with that part of COTH's function would then have to abide by the so obvious and declared intent of being such.

    Many, many posters love those stories and efforts to place horses.
    Who would not, they are great human/animal interest stories and are we not all here passionate about animals, if maybe not that interested on the human part of it?

    Since rescue threads seem to be at times about more than really trying to do best for any one horse, I see why some watching all that going on at times may want to call it like it is.
    It does seem at times that when it comes to the reality of what rescue has become, that some are pointing out that the emperor doesn't has any clothes understandably causes resentment.

    I am afraid that the day is coming where we will see people "rescuing" horses from stables, because keeping a horse in a stall will be deemed abusive, or horses turned loose at shows, because they are being abused when asked to jump, etc.
    Don't believe me? Go to any dog show and see the precautions we have to go thru, our dog club hires security, because there are rescue people out there letting dogs out of their crates to run loose in the streets, so they are not "abused" as show dogs.

    Rescue used to be what every normal decent person did to help any animal in real, dire need, because someone was not taking care of that horse properly.
    Today rescue has become at times a political arm of many animal rights people and thru it we will eventually lose our rights to own any animals.

    By the way, there are true rescues out there, taking in horses that need help, not buying and reselling horses under the name of "rescuing".
    Those are too busy to be grandstanding and in my humble opinion, those are the ones that need our help and support.
    You may disagree and who you want to support is definitely up to you.

    Just one more opinion, that's all.



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