The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 51 of 51
  1. #41
    Join Date
    Nov. 21, 2008
    Location
    Lone Star State
    Posts
    147

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goeslikestink View Post
    you on another thread was looking for lessons------ thats a novice rider

    I didn't realize only novice riders took lessons. On this side of the pond I see VERY advanced riders at the clinics in which I ride, and I have regular instruction with an upper level dressage trainer. Over in the UK I guess people who ride in clinics and take lessons are novices. The thread I was on was looking for lessons while I was on vacation.

    I know my level of skill; you don't.



  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2001
    Posts
    1,368

    Default

    It's nice of you to want to help people and get extra experience riding other horses, but my advice...don't do it unless the horse is a schoolmaster! :-) You're not getting paid to do it and as you yourself said, any time you handle a horse it's a risk -- so why increase the odds on horses that have issues (whether the issues are being babies/green or whatever)? It's not worth it. Enjoy your horse, put your time into your horse, and you'll get somewhere. As the saying goes, "Good horses make good riders." Riding horses with issues makes one a defensive rider, not a good rider.

    My husband would never tell me what I should or shouldn't do. But...I won't ride other people's horses any more either -- unless they're good ones!
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    "on another thread...looking for lessons...novice rider..." -- goeslikestink

    Looking for lessons does not equate to being a novice. Even the top competitors in the world take 'riding lessons'.

    But...at the same time, it does sound like you are getting hurt frequently and not slightly. Something is definitely wrong with what you are doing.

    Professionals who work with rough stock react quickly, and see these things coming, they usually stop it before it even boils over, and if it does boil over, they know how to leverage the situation so they don't get hurt. You are getting hurt far, far too often. Something is very much not right.

    Some people just do not have the instincts for rough work, they just don't pick it up. You seem to be one of those people. I'm not saying I'm better, but I have seen for nearly 40 years now, that some people can work safely with rough horses and some can't. EVERYONE has their limits.

    One of the other things one recognizes with age is that taking on someone else's problems for free, usually winds up biting you in the backside, one way or another.

    even if you fix THIS horse, they don't learn anything. They go out and get another horse and hand it to you - 'here, please make up for our stupidity, for free'. And it sounds like you're very unlikely to fix that horse - he sounds more likely to be fixing YOU.

    I know I will get some nasty comments for saying so - but this is about ego, your ego. You have something to prove. Stop trying to prove it. Tell them they need a professional breaker, tell them they need to sell the horse, tell them they're going to get their skull kicked in, and leave them alone to work it out.

    Stop taking unnecessary risks. Yes, riding is risky, but you are adding considerably, and unnecessarily, to the equation.

    And no, your husband is not 'overprotective'.
    Last edited by slc2; Dec. 26, 2008 at 06:15 AM.



  4. #44
    Join Date
    Oct. 26, 2004
    Location
    ILLINOIS :)
    Posts
    1,422

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Touchstone Farm View Post
    As the saying goes, "Good horses make good riders." Riding horses with issues makes one a defensive rider, not a good rider.
    I have never heard that quote, but it is waaay off base. If the only horses anyone rode were "good", then no one would learn how to train. Riding horses with "issues" (albeit not lethal ones) is what makes a good rider. I am suprised at the number of posters who are against working with problem animals. Now, I don't necessarily understand the OP's situation fully, but riding other horses that need a bit of fixing not only improves the rider's skill but also helps out his/her own horse's training by making one more aware of what that animal does. However, if there is no experienced supervison, the whole thing can wind up in a big mess.
    "And now . . .off to violin-land, where all is sweetness and delicacy and harmony and there are no red-headed clients to vex us with their conundrums."



  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    IMO it sounds like you are getting hurt wayyyyyy too often. If I got hurt that often (and I am a professional, spend hours everyday w/horses of all sorts) I'd expect my husband to have something to say about it, too. A five year old slamming you into a gate? That's craziness. Horses aren't supposed to spook on top of you. If I have this happen to me *once a year* I am thinking I need to get back on top of my game, NOW.

    It sounds like the best thing you could do for these people and their horses is to give them the good advice they need - GET A PROFESSIONAL TRAINER. As much as you would like to "help" these horses, you aren't, if their ground manners are such that they are doing things like this at five years old.

    Also... there is a certain sort of person who is ecstatically happy to let an ambitious ammy "train" their horses for free. Trust me.. these are not the sort of people you want to "work" for, paid or not. They don't own the kind of horses you want to be training just to get experience. By working with these horses for free, you perpetuate the owners idea that they can somehow get out of having to actually pay a trainer to train their horse. It would be a much better horse world if they didn't have people willing to work with their horses for free - they would either have to actually learn to do it themselves (and probably find out that they cannot, and perhaps get hurt themselves, which is always eye opening for that sort of person) or pay an appropriate professional to do the work.

    Why some people buy horses and think they are going to not have to do what the rest of the horse world does to get them trained, I have no idea. There is something about horses that brings this out in people. Perhaps it's that they had a well trained horse before, which made them think they were a trainer and not a rider. Perhaps they trained their dog. I don't know. But it's prevalent and ugly. So really, please, for everyon'e sake - stop perpetuating it!

    I had a friend who did this for people.. she got hurt a lot. When she decided it was not worth doing for free, and hung out her shingle, she had NO business. NONE of those people that thought she was fabulous *for free* were willing to pay her to get hurt. It was eye opening for her, she has since I believe gotten back her ammy status.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,296

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Carnelian View Post
    I didn't realize only novice riders took lessons. On this side of the pond I see VERY advanced riders at the clinics in which I ride, and I have regular instruction with an upper level dressage trainer. Over in the UK I guess people who ride in clinics and take lessons are novices. The thread I was on was looking for lessons while I was on vacation.

    I know my level of skill; you don't.
    lessons are always good as they can improve you, but there a but theres a lot of issues with that horse that if your skill was as good as you say wouldnt have let it get that far where you get hurt
    hence why i said your a novice rider-- mate there a novice and theres a novice i ahve done 5000 horses in my life time compared to your one or two
    that makes me more experinced and you a novice - and you my freind are getting hurt
    in all my time with breaksing schooling and re habbing i havent hardly ever been chucked off or hurt
    and nor has my daughter its called staying power and glue - nope serously its becuase we do it all the time we know when to correct the art is to antispate the horse moves before he antispates yours so you can correct or dont give him a chance to do xyz -------- keep the horse focused forwards and working



  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    I'm surprised there haven't been more 'sh** happens!' and defensive posts about how riding is dangerous and you can't make horses not do things, some horses are just bad (that's true). I thought this sort of talk would put people much more on the defensive and make them feel like they have to prove they have a lot of skill and just 'sh** happens!'.

    To a point, horses are unpredictable.

    The point is that the more experienced and skilled the person, the more predictable and preventable accidents become.

    I've seen some good trainers in my time...and I know there is a very, very big difference in skill level between different people...whether some proud folks like it or not.

    I used to work for someone who took in rough horses. It was really rather stunning and humbling, to be honest. He'd usually just give a jerk on the lead shank, say 'knock it off' and the horses never even TRIED to do the stuff they did with their owners. Runaways? The horses would be jogging around looking half asleep. Bad on the ground? Not too many. Some owners would be furious at the blow to their egos, and almost immediately take their horses home, only to get pushed, slammed, stomped again.

    He DID have one horse that he couldn't fix, even he had his limits. But it was one horse I saw. That's not a lot considering how many he did.

    I worked at a farm where a little tiny shriveled up, bent over, 72 year old groom would lead all the stallions around with the lead shank hanging down, they walked at his shoulder like little kittens. Let one of us morons try to lead one of those stallions and they'd be leaping around like wild elephants, and doing about the same amount of damage. You couldn't even say exactly what we were doing wrong. If you asked Jimmy how he did it, he'd say, 'They respect me, hon, we worked that all out a long time ago'. 'Did you beat 'em up, Jimmy?' 'Na I ain't mean to 'em'. He spent 54 years working with horses, hundreds a day, and he could say, 'Na, stand over here, hold the shank like this' and he would be right and it would work.

    There used to be a lot of guys around like Paul Williamson, and they all did basically what he does, though they didn't brag on themselves as much as Paul does, or sell it on a flash drive.

    I don't think the natural horsemanship guys are even half way able to deal with such horses. Their approach is too formulaic, and not flexible enough. They don't read horses, they just apply a recipe, and I don't think they really teach people anything much of use. They only impress audiences because they have slightly less trouble than the audience would. The REAL THING is very, very different. These NH guys are one trick ponies...the real old time breakers didn't take nearly the time they do or have anywhere near the problems they do, and they worked with much rougher horses that were not handled as much when young. I laugh when I watch those celebrity NH guys on videos and tv.

    They were called 'breakers' and they took the really rough horses and taught them to behave - sometimes, as Paul does, by simply not falling off when the horse acts up - the horse doesn't get what he wants by his behavior, so he quits, you don't fight, you just stay on. How Paul and people like him stay on is just - it's stunning. Stuff that would send most people flying, they're up there smiling.

    Sometimes, they work by making a not so pleasant consequence when the horse acts up. It's not pretty, and a lot of people think it's cruel, but it is very different from cruelty. The thing about it is that the horse always has a clear path, it's made clear to him, either you do this and be uncomfortable, or you do this and be comfortable.

    The key with the 'real thing' is you won't see these guys yelling, screaming, losing their temper. You won't see a lot of equipment, and no tricks. They can move quick, they know where to position themselves, and they SEEM to be actually doing very, very little.

    I've seen people just be ROUGH. That makes some horses stop misbehaving, but there eventually be a horse that will take them down for it.



  8. #48
    Join Date
    Mar. 12, 2006
    Posts
    4,343

    Default

    To a point, horses are unpredictable.

    The point is that the more experienced and skilled the person, the more predictable and preventable accidents become.
    That should be stamped on the head of every horse.
    I ride with a woman who is a total novice- rode less than a year, went out, bought a HUGE 5 yo greenie on her own. She has been dumped, run over... I still don't think she really gets that horses are unpredictable and can be dangerous. She doesn't *get* that cool, windy weather can lead to exuberant behavior. Now she is on to some BS about being the consistent leader while grazing will solve all her problems.

    Why are you helping these people? Risking your neck so they can keep a PMU baby that was a bad idea. There are THOUSANDS of suitable horses for young kids and novices out there that need homes. Instead of enabling them to keep what sounds like a horse that lacks the personality to be a reliable kids horse, tell them to sell that horse and find a kind, reliable pony or oldie.

    I don't know what to tell you about your husband. Why did you promise not to jump? Dealing with someone's green horse with a screw loose on the ground is probably more dangerous than jumping a steady eddie.



  9. #49
    Join Date
    Oct. 18, 2000
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    8,170

    Default

    Not wanting to get into the husband-rider issues, but if the OP has been getting medical attention for the injuries, then my concern would be that whoever is paying the medical insurance premiums for the family could be in for a serious jolt once the increases kick in this January. We go to the MD for physicals, flu shots and an occasional sinus infection, have less coverage than we probably should, and our rates just rocketed up again anyways. I don't want to think about what they would be if we actually USED the darn policy!



  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan. 25, 2001
    Posts
    1,368

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffie View Post
    I have never heard that quote, but it is waaay off base. If the only horses anyone rode were "good", then no one would learn how to train. Riding horses with "issues" (albeit not lethal ones) is what makes a good rider.
    I'm surprised you haven't heard the quote before. It's well-known, and I agree with what it means. Once you are a good rider with a very established position and confidence with a lot of issues in a lot of situations, you can tackle horses with "issues." Until then, IMO, you learn to ride defensively, with too much hand and force.
    "Dreams are the touchstone of our characters." Henry David Thoreau
    Touchstone Farm
    www.bytouchstonefarm.com



  11. #51
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2000
    Posts
    24,408

    Default

    The main source of injuries, aside from the real weird freak accidents, is people taking on problems they aren't able to manage. Ego and youth does cause a lot of accidents.

    I think one of the biggest sources of accidents is working with other people's problem horses for free, and a lot of that is ego and 'I can ride better than you, here, I'll prove it to you'.

    But...even the freak accidents...like horse catches his bit on a jump standard or stirrup while rubbing his nose. Are those all really freak accidents? Not really. Any trainer will tell you never to let your horse get his head near jump standards or stirrups, I've seen clinicians go ballistic when a student allowed their horse to rub his face on their boot and stirrup while they were sitting on the horse. Horses are not small house pets, and a lot of people never learn that. They may not get hurt for a while, but eventually they will.



Similar Threads

  1. I think my husband is GAY! :(
    By KCINTOLB in forum Off Topic
    Replies: 95
    Last Post: Nov. 11, 2010, 09:38 PM
  2. Heard of a "husband horse" what about a "husband saddle"
    By OverRabbitFarm in forum Off Course
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Sep. 7, 2010, 08:42 PM
  3. I have the BEST husband E-V-E-R!!!
    By Hunter Mom in forum Hunter/Jumper
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: Jan. 17, 2010, 08:31 PM
  4. what my husband said....
    By Tamara in TN in forum Off Course
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: Jun. 11, 2009, 07:06 PM
  5. How do you tell your husband?...
    By Sanely Eccentric in forum Dressage
    Replies: 200
    Last Post: Jan. 19, 2009, 08:24 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness