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  1. #1
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    North Georgia
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    Default My DF's Intro to "Natural Horsemanship" or...."Someone drank the kool-aid."

    You read that right. My DF, though he took English riding lessons up until his late teens, was introduced (incorrectly) to Natural Horsemanship this weekend.

    First of all, he loves the two hour horse block on RFD-TV. He laughs his rear off with Clinton Anderson ("Every Arab wants to be a Quarter Horse.") He thinks Parelli...is "entertaining to watch." He will go through the list of trainers on RFD-TV and give his comments on each of them.

    We went to a....farm....this weekend, and I was highly amused.

    Picture this.....two adults in a small round pen with two geldings. The two geldings are trotting side by side and then bumping into each other, one behind the other. (Did I mention it was a small round pen as in - one horse, one adult only should be in there?) The two adults.....are standing in the middle of the round pen with "carrot sticks." Each time the horses would trot by, they'd bend their knees, double over as if they were going to vomit, crouch down, then snap their eyes and heads upward from the ground staring at the horses, turning on their heels and chasing them around the round pen with their "carrot sticks." Frankly, it was freaking the horses out, causing them to bump into each other and try to scatter and get away. You would, too, if you were a prey animal, and these two "predators" were stalking you!

    My DF just looked at me like, "What the heck?!"

    We were even more amused when the two adults POPPED up (in an almost Masai hunter leap) and pointed in the direction they wanted the horses to go..........the horses went in opposite directions of where they pointed.

    Shortly thereafter, we were speaking with one of the adults. She was anti-bit, anti-saddle, anti-English, anti-Western, anti-jumping, anti-dressage, etc. (though had retired show horses of her own). She was talking about her riding form:

    "These English riders ride too far up on their crotch, with their knees in tight, and their heels pointed down. That's NOT how you ride a horse. You relax. You spread your legs out, turn your toes out and roll your back." Really now.

    "I don't ride in a bridle. I ride in a rope halter and a single lead rope attached. You get these horses in here that have been trained with a bit, and these English riders come and try to ride and turn them with their reins, and the horses keep on goin'. That's not a turn - that's a one rein stop. In order to get a horse to turn when you ride bareback, you twist your whole body around and look at their tail."

    She imitates this by holding both arms out to her side and turning completely around, staring at the imaginary horse's tail. "That makes 'em turn!"

    The comedy continued, but we kept a straight face.

    When we got in the car to leave, my DF looks at me and says, "what the heck was that?!"

    We stopped by and visited a friend of ours and when I said something about "carrot sticks," my lovely DF says, "Like the ones at the grocery store? That's what I thought she was talking about."
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  2. #2
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    Jun. 21, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post

    "These English riders ride too far up on their crotch, with their knees in tight, and their heels pointed down. That's NOT how you ride a horse. You relax. You spread your legs out, turn your toes out and roll your back." Really now.

    "I don't ride in a bridle. I ride in a rope halter and a single lead rope attached. You get these horses in here that have been trained with a bit, and these English riders come and try to ride and turn them with their reins, and the horses keep on goin'. That's not a turn - that's a one rein stop. In order to get a horse to turn when you ride bareback, you twist your whole body around and look at their tail."

    She imitates this by holding both arms out to her side and turning completely around, staring at the imaginary horse's tail. "That makes 'em turn!"


    "In order to get a horse to turn when you ride bareback, you twist your whole body around and look at their tail."
    Priceless

    I would love to see them do that at full gallop on a hot horse in open country!!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2003
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    3,249

    Default

    That Dear Friend I spoke about in a thread about a troublesome loader thinks his issue can be solved with a rope halter, like magic.

    She'll talk to her horse about misbehaviours instead of correcting him.
    Then wonders why she's being ignored.

    I pray daily she doesn't discover Parelli.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
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    Default

    Hmmmm, did she have on a tin foil hat by chance?

    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  5. #5
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    North Georgia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    Hmmmm, did she have on a tin foil hat by chance?
    Wouldn't that be classified, then, as "tack"?
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  6. #6
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    North Georgia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tkhawk View Post


    "In order to get a horse to turn when you ride bareback, you twist your whole body around and look at their tail."
    Priceless

    I would love to see them do that at full gallop on a hot horse in open country!!
    Oh, and I can imitate it quite well
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tkhawk View Post


    "In order to get a horse to turn when you ride bareback, you twist your whole body around and look at their tail."
    Priceless

    I would love to see them do that at full gallop on a hot horse in open country!!

    In a perfect world I would be able to actually twist my whole body around...what do you do if you are all old and crunchy

    I'd better hope I was on a REALLY long one way path...
    I Loff My Quarter Horse & I love Fenway Bartholomule cliques

    Just somebody with a positive outlook on life...go ahead...hate me for that.



  8. #8
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    Feb. 15, 2007
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    often between a rock and hard place in Ky
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post

    Shortly thereafter, we were speaking with one of the adults. She was anti-bit, anti-saddle, anti-English, anti-Western, anti-jumping, anti-dressage, etc. (though had retired show horses of her own). She was talking about her riding form:
    So what kind of riding DO they do pray tell????
    ___._/> I don't suffer from insanity.. I enjoy every
    ____/ minute of it! Member stick horse art lovers
    ';;;;;;; clique
    //__\\<-- Don't feed the llama!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    Default

    Grape,Cherry or Orange? I prefer Grape!

    What works for some doesn't for others.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  10. #10
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    Nov. 5, 2008
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    North Georgia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by horse-loverz View Post
    So what kind of riding DO they do pray tell????

    Bareback..."natural horsemanship riding."
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  11. #11
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    Nov. 4, 2003
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    Dallas, Georgia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post
    Wouldn't that be classified, then, as "tack"?
    Ach, silly me!

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post
    Oh, and I can imitate it quite well
    Oh, I can vouch for her demonstrative capabilities I give her a 8.3 for execution. I got a personal demonstration yesterday when HP and Andrew arrived at my barn, after visiting that...uh.....ummm....place. I saw pics. You can't call it a farm.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post

    What works for some doesn't for others.
    (Or none of the horses at this farm for that matter.)

    It's not that I'm bad-mouthing all natural horsemanship or even one particular training style. It's more of someone or persons that pick and choose and try to make up their own training styles (or do the actual training methods incorrectly) especially when they bad-mouth everybody else but them (or their training methods).
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    Oh, I can vouch for her demonstrative capabilities I give her a 8.3 for execution. I got a personal demonstration yesterday when HP and Andrew arrived at my barn, after visiting that...uh.....ummm....place. I saw pics. You can't call it a farm.

    Yes...well I also was able to stretch out and pop my back imitating "turning a horse bareback." (My knee also cracked doing my training impression).
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 14, 2006
    Posts
    1,813

    Default

    What do the following have in common?

    The breastfeeding vs bottle and natural vs epidural debates of my pregnant coworkers (thank you Apple for inventing the iPod!)

    The religious strife in the Middle East

    Red vs blue state politics

    Natural horsemanship


    At the extremes, there is a complete lack of logic and an inability to admit that one doesn't necessarily have THE ONE TRUE WAY that will work for all of the world. Human beings are weird like this

    BES
    Proudly owned by 2 chestnut mares
    Crayola Posse: sea green
    Mighty Rehabbers Clique



  15. #15
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    Jun. 21, 2008
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    Default

    Riding bareback is nothing new. Heck the first horsemen rode bareback until they invented saddles. Some Native Americans rode bareback into battle. A lot of countries still ride bareback(not for any particular reason-they do both). So I guess I just don't understand what the buzz is all about....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-OJ...eature=related



  16. #16
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    Jun. 24, 2005
    Location
    Central New York
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    238

    Default

    Oh wow... Riding bareback can be really fun and definitely beneficial, but the head-tossing-mouth-bared-open-wide horse in the video doesn't give me the impression that it's particularly connecting with its rider.

    I feel like both advocates and opponents of "natural horsemanship" might have some serious objections here...



  17. #17
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    Jun. 21, 2008
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    Now a Youtube video I would pay big bucks for is to watch the above NH person ride this or any Arab horse bareback-since they are so into riding bareback and in a halter! Or for that matter an OTTB or a hot, hot Morgan!! Trying to steer while galloping by turning your body around to look at the tail and no bit and just a halter -I can't get the picture out of my head!!! That is a classic!!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Y-OJ...eature=related



  18. #18
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    North Georgia
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    Wow - what is that person doing to that horse? Really if the rider wanted to "connect" with the horse, why does he have such short reins? and why is her head tied down and in?

    Judging by the person's training techniques (or lack thereof), I'd be tickled pink to see her even mount a horse. My DF said, "I was kind of hoping she'd show us just how 'bad' these 'English riders' are."
    If wishes were horses then beggars would ride...
    DLA: Draft Lovers Anonymous
    Quote Originally Posted by talkofthetown View Post
    As in, the majikal butterfly-fahting gypsy vanners.



  19. #19
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    Jun. 21, 2008
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    His riding style is defnitely not great. I just put that video up to show that people ride bareback all over all the time not just NH. Yes he is yanking on the bit- yes..
    Head tossing and Arabs-not necessarily a bit issue. They like to go, mine will not go unless I let her, but she has an opinion and loves a good gallop as any Arab and used to toss her head up as a sign of frustration when I l held her back and not by the bit, just my seat-not bad as in hit you in the face-just a let me go, let me go, let me go thingie-I have more or less trained her out of it-but she still expresses her opinion in different ways when we come to a good spot -which is fine as long as you listen to me..



  20. #20
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    Jun. 21, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by HydroPHILE View Post
    Wow - what is that person doing to that horse? Really if the rider wanted to "connect" with the horse, why does he have such short reins? and why is her head tied down and in?

    Judging by the person's training techniques (or lack thereof), I'd be tickled pink to see her even mount a horse. My DF said, "I was kind of hoping she'd show us just how 'bad' these 'English riders' are."
    Actually that is another point I wanted to make-riders a lot of of places ride bareback really are not looking to connect with their horses as in the one great deep lovey dovey conenction. Some do, because they can't afford a saddle.

    I just think because you ride bareback or with a halter does not mean you have a great conenction with your horse. I ride my mare all over the trails-most of the time alone and half the time in speed-in a snaffle. I would say that about 99% of the time I don't need the bit-she is tuned to me. BUt there is a 1% of the time, the bit proves useful-more as a reminder-come back to me in a very sticky situation. I don't use it or pull it, but it serves its purpose. But the fact that I don't need it most of the time, does not mean I will ride the trails only in a halter and bareback. i like riding bareback too, but riding in a saddle is much more comfortable over long distances. There is a reason they invented saddles and bridles-just because we use them doesn't mean we don't have connections with our horses...



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