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  1. #1
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    Default Nutrition exprts: Thoughts on ultium feed? pg. 2

    The background:

    1. I am an idiot when it comes to nutrition. I'm attempting to become more knowledgeable, but I'm afraid it's like math: I will never be able to understand it.

    2. My new OTTB needs help fattening up. She's got wonderful healthy feet, her wooly winter coat is shiny, but she's skinny. She's very calm but has nervous tendencies, and I'm thinking she's worrying all her calories away. The feed she's eating now is not particularly high quality, so I want to change it, but don't really know what to feed instead.

    3. I am having trouble finding a feed store that carries ration balancers, and I don't really know what is and isn't a ration balancer. So if either of these choices that I'll list are, I'm claiming up front that I don't know what I'm doing.


    Ok, so I was thinking I'd try the Tractor Supply Co. feed. Someone recommended the Dumor Stable Energy pellet. (No link on the TSC website but it's 14%, don't know any more info than that.)
    I also saw that TSC has Platform Performance http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/...&Special=false which says that you don't need to feed any additional vitamin supplements.

    Dumor also has a vitamin supp http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/...&Special=false

    So if anyone knows the specifics on these feeds, please help me out. First, does the Dumor feed need the vitamin supp to go along with it? If it does, then the Platform would be cheaper overall. I'm assuming that since the Platform contains all these vitamins & minerals, that it's a better quality feed. ??? That and it's $6 more than the Dumors.

    Does the platform qualify as a ration balancer since it has vits/mins in it already? Here's what the info says:

    Any horse in serious training for jumping, racing, barrel racing, endurance racing, reining, roping and other high energy activities will thrive on Platform sport & performance horse feed. specifically developed to meet the needs of today's equine athletes, Platform sport & performance horse feed contains higher fiber, higher fat, lower starch and 14% highly digestible protein. It is rich in calories from fat, not sugars and starches, plus the right amount of vitamins and minerals for hard-working horses. No additional grain, pelleted feed or vitamin/mineral supplements are needed when the sport & performance horse feed is fed-just quality hay or pasture.
    So does this mean I can feed less of it? I guess it'll have info on the back about how to feed it. So that's a stupid question. But you can answer anyway if you want.....


    Tell me everything you know! And you can make fun of my ignorance too, if you'd like...because I am!
    Last edited by Seven-up; Dec. 24, 2008 at 09:31 PM.



  2. #2
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    Default

    With all due respect, I'd stay away from TSC feeds. They tend to run very high in sugar, starch and NSCs.

    Buy the best you can afford. Go for the lowest in NSC and as close to sugar free as you can. If you can't, then start with plain (molasses free) beet pulp and add a rational balancer OR a good vitamin & loose mineral mix designed for your geographic area. Some flax and Canola oil will up the fat content, but provide "cool" calories to keep her weight up.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  3. #3
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    Default

    I agree with the above poster.......do you have any other feed choices in your area?

    Might want to look at the Foxden Equine Products...I use both Linpro and Quissence with my TB.



  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    With all due respect, I'd stay away from TSC feeds. They tend to run very high in sugar, starch and NSCs.

    Buy the best you can afford. Go for the lowest in NSC and as close to sugar free as you can. If you can't, then start with plain (molasses free) beet pulp and add a rational balancer OR a good vitamin & loose mineral mix designed for your geographic area. Some flax and Canola oil will up the fat content, but provide "cool" calories to keep her weight up.
    This is what they have on the back of the bag:

    Any horse in serious training for jumping, racing, barrel racing, endurance racing, reining, roping and other high energy activities will thrive on Platform sport & performance horse feed. specifically developed to meet the needs of today's equine athletes, Platform sport & performance horse feed contains higher fiber, higher fat, lower starch and 14% highly digestible protein. It is rich in calories from fat, not sugars and starches, plus the right amount of vitamins and minerals for hard-working horses. No additional grain, pelleted feed or vitamin/mineral supplements are needed when the sport & performance horse feed is fed-just quality hay or pasture.
    Sounds like low sugar, low starch, calories from fat not sugar. But I don't know what I'm talking about.

    Oh, and what's NSC?



  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by dalpal View Post
    I agree with the above poster.......do you have any other feed choices in your area?

    Might want to look at the Foxden Equine Products...I use both Linpro and Quissence with my TB.
    Looked on that website. would have to order it-- no one down here would carry it.



  6. #6
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    NSC = Non-structural Carbohydrates.

    With all due respect to TSC and Dumor, their "label" can say anything. I'd recommend contacting them and asking for a breakdown on sugar, starch and NSC percentage numbers.

    If TSC has truly and FINALLY caught on that corn/oats/barley and molasses are big no-no's, then I will certainly retract my statement.
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoMare View Post
    NSC = Non-structural Carbohydrates.

    With all due respect to TSC and Dumor, their "label" can say anything. I'd recommend contacting them and asking for a breakdown on sugar, starch and NSC percentage numbers.

    If TSC has truly and FINALLY caught on that corn/oats/barley and molasses are big no-no's, then I will certainly retract my statement.
    So you're saying what's on the label is not what's in there?



  8. #8
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    Default can you make your own?

    You could always make a BP/alfalfa/flax combo and know what your horse is eating...add a whole foods multivitamin and call it good.



  9. #9
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    She's not so much saying that they are lying; rather, Chocomare is saying that TSC's definition of "low" might not be the same as the definition of "low" accepted by the low starch gurus (I think their number is 20% NSC).

    TSC also has something of a reputation for less-than-stellar quality ingredients (animal fat for some products comes to mind).

    As far as the lack of need to feed any additional vit/min supplement with the Platform, this would only be the case if you feed the recommended amount of the feed. MANY people do not feed this amount (it is usually quite a bit).
    Last edited by pattnic; Dec. 15, 2008 at 09:09 AM.
    Founder, Higher Standards Leather Care Addicts Anonymous
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  10. #10
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    Thanks Pattnic. That's exactly what I mean.

    To me, low starch/sugar/NSC means no more than 15% NSC, NO sugar, beet pulp based (no grains whatsoever).

    Unless you can get specific percentage numbers, don't trust the label just cuz it says "Low."
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  11. #11
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    Right, "low" or "lower" compared to what? Lower than 30% NSC? They are out there

    Someone near you must carry a ration balancer. I don't think I've seen one that I'd *never* feed, and that's coming from someone who doesn't like Purina products but would feed Enrich 32 if necessary. So a ration balancer for nutrition, and then you have lots of options for calories.

    Hang on, there's another thread I'll link to that was in H/J...
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  12. #12
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    http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum...d.php?t=180108

    My advice to you is the same as it was there
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13
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    Do you have a Buckeye dealer near you? There are a lot of great options with Buckeye!!



  14. #14
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    You already got lots of good advice here, but also be aware of soy. Unfortunately soy is added to many horse feeds and supplements and according to some members here it caused problems with their horses, even if it was included in low NSC feeds!



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by SS189 View Post
    Do you have a Buckeye dealer near you? There are a lot of great options with Buckeye!!
    I agree with Buckeye.

    I switched my horse from sweet feed last year (a main reason why I left my old barn! ick!) to Buckeye's Gro n win ration balancer. She lost a little too much weight for my liking (she needed to lose some though) so I added ground flax seed and beet pulp and that has been the perfect combo. People also use BOSS (black oil sunflower seeds) or oils in feed as well to add fat.

    As long as your horse is getting the proper amount of vitamins and minerals (and I learned that on an "easy keeper" like mine if she was getting a small amount of sweet feed or pellet type grain, she was never getting enough vitamins/minerals b/c you'd have to feed more than you shold to get them which seems silly) just add a fat source.



  16. #16
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    There's no buckeye dealer in LA, according to their website. I do have one more feed store I can check out; it's a big store and it does carry a lot of different things.


    What are brand names for ration balancers? I'm thinking I need to ask for them by name, because when I ask if they carry ration balancers, I just get a look that says, "Huh? What's that?" Obviously buckeye, but I don't think we have that here. What others are there?



    ETA: I just reread JB's post on the other thread. So besides these, are there any others?

    ie Progressive Nutrition Grass Advantage, Triple Crown 30, Purina Enrich 32), or by using a good vit/min supplement and then adding Uckele's Tri-Amino.



  17. #17
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    Haha! I just called that big feed store and asked if they had ration balancers. "Uh, ration...balancers? Hold on..." Manager gets on the phone, says the same thing... So I said, "Like TC 30, Enrich 32..."

    "Oh! Oh, yeah, we have Enrich 32."


    So there ya go. Helps if you know what you're asking for! (I still don't, but whatever...)


    Thanks, JB!


    So if I go with the Enrich, what would I need to add on top of that for extra calories? "Cool" calories, if possible. I don't really mind the crazies, but I'd like to avoid it if I can.



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven-up View Post
    There's no buckeye dealer in LA, according to their website. I do have one more feed store I can check out; it's a big store and it does carry a lot of different things.


    What are brand names for ration balancers?
    The best thing to do is call the big store, ask them what brands of feed they carry, then spend a little time on each feed brand's web site determining which of their products is the ration balancer.

    In fact, you could just post the names of those brands here on COTH and I'm sure folks would be happy to tell you what they think of those brands' ration balancers.
    Head Geek at The Saddle Geek Blog http://www.thesaddlegeek.com/



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seven-up View Post
    Haha! I just called that big feed store and asked if they had ration balancers. "Uh, ration...balancers? Hold on..." Manager gets on the phone, says the same thing... So I said, "Like TC 30, Enrich 32..."

    "Oh! Oh, yeah, we have Enrich 32."


    So there ya go. Helps if you know what you're asking for! (I still don't, but whatever...)


    Thanks, JB!



    So if I go with the Enrich, what would I need to add on top of that for extra calories? "Cool" calories, if possible. I don't really mind the crazies, but I'd like to avoid it if I can.
    What I said on the other thread alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, boss, rice bran.

    You SHOULD mind the crazies! It might be from alfalfa, and if so, just cross that off your list.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post




    What I said on the other thread alfalfa pellets, beet pulp, boss, rice bran.

    You SHOULD mind the crazies! It might be from alfalfa, and if so, just cross that off your list.
    I know I should... but my daredevil streak still outweighs my common sense streak...


    I went and read the other thread before I asked, so I know you said it all before. But thanks for clarifying again. Somehow I feel a little smarter now that you've said it 5 times.

    I just took my horses off of the BOSS because of some things I had read about omega-6's maybe/maybe not being bad for them. My girls would be happy to have their horsey crack back in their buckets. I was going to switch from BOSS to flax seed. Would that be comparable?



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