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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    While the diseases are terrible, the vaccines are not without risk.
    I really do think we over-vaccinate our pets simply because the manufacturers do not care spending money on the long term effectivness of the vaccines so we would know for sure.

    After all, humans do not get yearly vaccinations, so what makes us think that pets absolutely need too? Makes no common sense to me at all.

    I rather get the base immunizations (and only for life threatening diseases) and then focus on keeping a strong and healthy immune system. I know of horses who have never been vaccinated and they have not had any problems in over 10 years. Wild/feral horses seem to thrive without them too, so much in fact, that the population numbers are a constant eyesore for range cattle ranchers, who want it all.

    More is not always better and I believe this is very true when it comes to vaccinations and wormings too.



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Oct. 3, 2002
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    it's not the edge of the earth, but you can see it from here
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    I won't use Fort Dodge products. Period. As Hoopoe posted, the adjuvant is likely the problem.

    My issues were with a West Nile Vax, and Quest.

    I only contacted them after the Quest death. They were supremely less than helpful. Truly I was hoping for help with a necropsy to figured out what happened.

    At any rate. No Ft Dodge for me. I don't do combined vax either, Except E/W/T... everything else is single and spread out... and I do the minimal amounts in frequency and type...

    Good luck. Just remember, once a reaction, the next time can be far faster and worse. I'm sure your vet will go over that with you.
    InnisFailte Pinto Sporthorses & Coloured Cobs
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Bits are like cats, what's one more? (Petstorejunkie)



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jun. 30, 2005
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    2,185

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    My gelding had a reaction just like you described. He was given a 4 way vaccination and had his teeth done at the same time. When the vet called the next day to check on him I told him what happened and he said that he had a reaction to the vaccine and to have them use a different one on him next time. He has it marked in his chart which one he can have now. He has never had another reaction to any vaccine since.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
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    3,503

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    MERCURY (Thimerosol) is one of the MOST TOXIC substance on earth. I fail to understand why ANY drug company would use it for ANY animal or human (human vaccines are known to use this, as well) to be injected into their bodies. That, to me, is just totally insane. One could call a duck a cow but the duck is still a duck. Same with mercury-thimerosol.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 7, 2005
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    With a dog named Rockstar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    I really do think we over-vaccinate our pets simply because the manufacturers do not care spending money on the long term effectivness of the vaccines so we would know for sure.

    After all, humans do not get yearly vaccinations, so what makes us think that pets absolutely need too? Makes no common sense to me at all.
    I have about 230 pages of Immunology notes if you want to know the science behind it. Vaccines weren't created by drug companies.

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post

    I know of horses who have never been vaccinated and they have not had any problems in over 10 years. Wild/feral horses seem to thrive without them too, so much in fact, that the population numbers are a constant eyesore for range cattle ranchers, who want it all.
    We stress our horses by putting them in stalls, crowded areas, hauling them to shows, training, etc. All that aside, young horses have compromised immune systems. There are lots of young wild mustangs that die every year....

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    More is not always better and I believe this is very true when it comes to vaccinations and wormings too
    Agreed, which is why I was questioning the OP's use of a 4 way vaccine this time of year. The worming, well, that's another story. History, environment, and age of the animal play a huge role. But, I'd urge you to do some reasearch rather than make emotional decisions.



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2001
    Location
    Oxford PA
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    10,337

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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    MERCURY (Thimerosol) is one of the MOST TOXIC substance on earth. I fail to understand why ANY drug company would use it for ANY animal or human (human vaccines are known to use this, as well) to be injected into their bodies. That, to me, is just totally insane. One could call a duck a cow but the duck is still a duck. Same with mercury-thimerosol.
    It was my understanding that thimerosol was long-gone from human vaccines. Can anyone comment on this?



  7. #27
    LandBaron Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by pintopiaffe View Post
    I won't use Fort Dodge products. Period. As Hoopoe posted, the adjuvant is likely the problem.

    My issues were with a West Nile Vax, and Quest.

    I only contacted them after the Quest death. They were supremely less than helpful. Truly I was hoping for help with a necropsy to figured out what happened.

    At any rate. No Ft Dodge for me.
    Hey, not to hijack, but did anyone have trouble with the Ft. Dodge strangles vaccine this year? As in, developing a full blown case of strangles after it was administered?



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
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    Minnesota
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evalee Hunter View Post
    It was my understanding that thimerosol was long-gone from human vaccines. Can anyone comment on this?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal

    In the U.S., the European Union, and a few other affluent countries, thiomersal is no longer used as a preservative in routine childhood vaccination schedules.[1] In the U.S., the only exceptions among vaccines routinely recommended for children are some formulations of the inactivated influenza vaccine for children older than two years.[5] Several vaccines that are not routinely recommended for young children do contain thiomersal, including DT (diphtheria and tetanus), Td (tetanus and diphtheria), and TT (tetanus toxoid); other vaccines may contain a trace of thiomersal from steps in manufacture.[3] Also, four rarely used treatments for pit viper, coral snake, and black widow venom still contain thiomersal.[6] Outside North America and Europe, many vaccines contain thiomersal; the World Health Organization has concluded that there is no evidence of toxicity from thiomersal in vaccines and no reason on safety grounds to change to more-expensive single-dose administration.[7]



  9. #29
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
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    18,472

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    Vaccinating in the winter and in the dead of summer is now considered to be much safer than fall/spring. This is because in the spring and fall, the grass is more likely to be high in sugar, hormones are changing, and it is not an ideal time to be messing around w/a horses immune system. Every six months for those who need them is every six months anyway, and then you aren't waiting a few weeks to build immunity right in the middle of mosquito season/show season.

    Straight from my vets mouth. Check out Katy's Watts website for more info on grass in the spring/fall. This may be more applicable to those of us who live in the southeast.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul. 28, 2004
    Location
    Texas
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    As I indicated above, I had a bad experience after a flu/rhino and will not use any vaccination with thimerisol. My question about the controvery, is whether it is an accumulation of mercury that is the problem. In other words, a single exposure to this or that may be considered "safe" but who knows what other exposures a particular subject has had???? For example, did the child that developed autism eat a lot of tuna AND have a vaccination? If I were to research the issue, that is what I would look into.



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Jan. 13, 2008
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    5,565

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    Originally posted by FatPalomino:

    the closet vet
    Is the vet gay? Oh my.



  12. #32
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    Jan. 31, 2003
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaroquePony View Post
    Is the vet gay? Oh my.

    No, no, no BP. A *closet vet* would be one who only came out of the closet to practice animal medicine
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  13. #33
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2004
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    1,804

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    Several years ago one of my horses had vaccinosis (bad rxn) to the Fort Dodge Rabies vaccine. Because of that, I now seperate the injection sites and space his out a little more, but since boycotting Ft. Dodge vaccines, knock on wood, I have had no further problems.

    I was completely underwhelmed by the vet's response and the lack of information from the company. I wish they were mandated to release some type of information (strict numbers of confirmed vaccinoses/adverse events by vets) for their products. Fort Dodge's extreme reluctance to be forthcoming convinced me that they are hiding something. That may or may not be true but because of the really crappy response I got from them I do not use their products.



  14. #34
    Join Date
    Oct. 22, 2002
    Location
    in the middle of the forest
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    668

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    This is why I don't use Fort Dodge vaccines. My boy had a problem with them the year I had the vet give him his shots. I know order mine from Valley Vet (or another company) and give them separately. I avoid combination vaccines as well. So I'll give him one shot on Monday, one shot on Saturday etc, and it takes me about two weeks to get all his shots done. But he no longer has any problems or reactions to the vaccines.
    "If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man." Mark Twain



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2008
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    789

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    Well, I blew up my stallion's neck with a Flu/Rhino combo 2 falls ago. He couldn't bend his neck and it was hot and swollen on both sides. I called Fort Dodge and after they complimented my stallion's immediate immunologic reaction to their product, it was determined the company that shipped me the vaccine may have been at fault by not packaging it properly. Apparantly if the vaccine becomes frozen at any time this kind of reaction is typical (ie vaccine packed touching the ice packs without padding in between). Discussed it with my vets and he now gets bute before during and after spring shots. No more fall shots for him (or anyone else as long as my herd is closed).

    You really have to watch the fluid intake when you have a vaccine reaction. Horses go off water and colic follows. Lots of soaked cubes, bran, wet beet pulp etc., to keep the fluids in the guts until they are drinking well again.



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2012
    Posts
    49

    Default Can't use Ft. Dodge products either

    My horse has a bad reaction to Ft. Dodge vaccines as well. He hangs his head, acts stiff and sore, and there is detectable heat in his hooves. I use Intervet now and bute him beforehand, and space the various single vaccines out over many days. Haven't had any problems with this process since switching to Intervet.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2009
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    452

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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    After all, humans do not get yearly vaccinations, so what makes us think that pets absolutely need too? Makes no common sense to me at all.
    Makes common sense to me. I don't spend nearly the amount of time outside with the infected biting insects without wearing protective clothing/sprays that my horse does. Heck, he's out there during the worst times, dawn and dusk.

    Add me to the list of people that don't use Ft. Dodge products. I've seen TERRIBLE reactions to them.

    I did hear that Pfizer acquired Ft. Dodge though. I don't know how long ago this was or whether or not it will/has affect/ed their vaccines.

    FWIW, I will only use Intervet
    "Be the change you want to see in the world."
    ~Mahatma Gandhi



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