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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2008
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    16

    Default Please look at my horse's hooves.

    I was told to come here to get comments about my horse's hooves.

    I've had Storm for 3 years now and he's been barefoot ever since I got him. My Farrier says his feet are excellent and how lucky I was to find such a good footed horse.

    Some friends of mine have looked at his feet and say his fronts don't match. They think my Farrier needs to match the feet up. My Farrier has never said anything about it and I'm wondering if I should be worried about this.

    I also want to know what the holes in his RH frog are. He's not lame but I just wanted to know if I need to treat them with something. I didn't see them until after my Farrier left and he didn't say anything about them.

    I guess I just want reassuring.

    Thanks!

    Fran

    LF

    http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...mLFmontage.jpg

    RF

    http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...mRFmontage.jpg

    LH

    http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...mLHmontage.jpg

    RH

    http://i399.photobucket.com/albums/p...mRHmontage.jpg
    Last edited by Secret Storm; Dec. 3, 2008 at 12:55 AM. Reason: photos back up



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    7,320

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    It is common for front hooves to not match and it is directly related to the horse's side dominance. Usually the dominant front hoof takes more load and therefore tends to be wider and flatter, while the other, that takes less load tends to grow more upright. Only making the body as evenly strong as possible to even out the loading of the front hooves will help with this. This cannot achieved by trimming and if it is attempted, it uauslly makes the horse lame.

    However, I feel your farrier trims too much frog and possibly too much bar and sole. I also like the shape of the LH before the trim better. It looks better balanced.

    I see you removed the photos because they were messed up - perhaps that's why it did not quite look right to me?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 6, 2006
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    70

    Default

    a lot of the time the conformation of the horse plays into the shape of his feet. some horses that have crooked legs or toes turned in/out tend to have feet that form to that angle so they can move without putting stress on themselves.

    as for the holes in the frog, it could be just the frog shedding. shedding is normal for horses, but if its wet and smelly then it could possibly be just rotting from thrush so you have to check they smell of his feet and see if he needs some care UNDER the feet rather than outside.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    It is common for front hooves to not match and it is directly related to the horse's side dominance. Usually the dominant front hoof takes more load and therefore tends to be wider and flatter, while the other, that takes less load tends to grow more upright. Only making the body as evenly strong as possible to even out the loading of the front hooves will help with this. This cannot achieved by trimming and if it is attempted, it uauslly makes the horse lame.

    However, I feel your farrier trims too much frog and possibly too much bar and sole. I also like the shape of the LH before the trim better. It looks better balanced.

    I see you removed the photos because they were messed up - perhaps that's why it did not quite look right to me?
    Storm has not been lame so maybe my farrier has not been trying to even his feet out? I intend to ask him about the fronts next time I see him.

    This is how my farrier has always trimmed Storm's feet. The trims last for a long time and he's not been sore or anything. Why do you think he's trimmed too much?

    The photos are okay now. I checked to be sure I had not mixed any up.

    Thanks,

    Fran



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2008
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    16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Klang34 View Post
    a lot of the time the conformation of the horse plays into the shape of his feet. some horses that have crooked legs or toes turned in/out tend to have feet that form to that angle so they can move without putting stress on themselves.

    as for the holes in the frog, it could be just the frog shedding. shedding is normal for horses, but if its wet and smelly then it could possibly be just rotting from thrush so you have to check they smell of his feet and see if he needs some care UNDER the feet rather than outside.
    He does turn out in the hinds and toes in a little in the fronts. I didn't smell anything while picking out his hooves before my farrier came. We did get some rain over the weekend. There is a pond in his pasture and he likes to wade in it. My farrier says it is a good thing since it has been so dry.

    Thanks,

    Fran



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 30, 2008
    Location
    Washington
    Posts
    333

    Default

    It looks to me like your farrier takes out too much sole and frog. Many horses have mismatched feet but they will correct over time with a proper trim, it can't be done instantly. Also, it looks like your horse has lamellar seperation in all four feet, most likely subclinical laminitis, not anything you would have noticed lameness wise. What is the diet, what breed, what age?

    And the holes in the frog look like thrush.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by decorum View Post
    It looks to me like your farrier takes out too much sole and frog. Many horses have mismatched feet but they will correct over time with a proper trim, it can't be done instantly. Also, it looks like your horse has lamellar seperation in all four feet, most likely subclinical laminitis, not anything you would have noticed lameness wise. What is the diet, what breed, what age?

    And the holes in the frog look like thrush.
    That's what someone else said. Wouldn't it make Storm sore if too much was taken out? He's been great, even after the trims.

    I had not noticed his feet being mismatched until some friends said something about it. Looking at the photos I could see what they were talking about.

    Where do you see lamellar separation? Right now he's getting locally grown grass hay and whatever is left on the pasture. He is 10 and is an Arabian but he's rather big boned so I think he's a mix of something, no papers.

    Thanks,

    Fran



  8. #8
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    Nov. 30, 2008
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    Washington
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    If you look at his toes from the bottom before the trim he has a little ditch between the sole and the wall, that is seperation. After the trim it is less noticable since the length of wall is lessened but you can still see, it looks like stretched laminae. It actually seems to show up worst in his RH? It is the last pic.

    If he is great after a trim despite the sole being taken out then that is wonderful! That is what matters most, the horse's comfort.

    Does he have any unusual fat pads? Maybe a cresty neck, some fat next to his tail head? I may be wrong in my angle here, I haven't seen him or his feet in person and this is hard to do without all the info.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2006
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    1,838

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    She sees separation on the toes, especially the LF. It's the black stuff in the white line.

    It's hard to tell from photos, but to me, it looks as if your horse is walking on its soles, rather than on the hoof walls.

    You could have your hay analysed to see exactly what he's getting. Getting minerals balanced really improves hoof quality.

    Good luck.
    Barbaro Cultist, Metabolic Nazi



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
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    580

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    Quote Originally Posted by decorum View Post
    It looks to me like your farrier takes out too much sole and frog. Many horses have mismatched feet but they will correct over time with a proper trim, it can't be done instantly. Also, it looks like your horse has lamellar seperation in all four feet, most likely subclinical laminitis, not anything you would have noticed lameness wise. What is the diet, what breed, what age?

    And the holes in the frog look like thrush.
    Hrm...if the horse had subclinical laminitis, wouldn't she have noticed lamenes though? I'm wondering if the stretching you see at the toes is from previously not weighting the heels and stressing the toe?

    I was wondering if the "holes" in the frog was possilby from the frog "spreading" from the heels starting to decontract or maybe the frogs are going to shed?



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 17, 2004
    Location
    NY
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    1,953

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    I don't see any thrush, but I do see feet that are being way over trimmed in the back area. Is your farrier a farrier or a barefoot trimmer?

    The LF is a club foot from what I can see and you are seeing that stress on the laminae at the toe. Don't let your farrier "match" the feet up because they will probably never be able to.

    How long has your farrier been trimming this horse? I'd be curious how long, and how long the horse will stay sound with so much foot being taken away.

    Regards



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul. 12, 2005
    Location
    Western North Carolina
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    2,982

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    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Storm View Post
    I was told to come here to get comments about my horse's hooves.

    I've had Storm for 3 years now and he's been barefoot ever since I got him. My Farrier says his feet are excellent and how lucky I was to find such a good footed horse.
    His feet look really nice compared to a lot of others I've seen. The hairlines are fairly straight and appear to follow a 30 degree angle. Does your Farrier study any barefoot methods???? I've never seen a Farrier trim like this before! Does he shoe horses or just trim? I'm asking mainly because Farriers don't tend to trim like that and some people use "Farrier" when they are talking about trimmers who don't shoe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Storm View Post
    Some friends of mine have looked at his feet and say his fronts don't match. They think my Farrier needs to match the feet up. My Farrier has never said anything about it and I'm wondering if I should be worried about this.
    The question is, do the feet need to match at all? What were they thinking your Farrier needed to do to "match them up"? You should ask him about it but he may never of brought it to your attention because he didn't see it was a problem. However, of all of the feet, the LF appears to be the steeper one and it does have dirt filling a separation in the WL area of the toe. You didn't mention how long it had been since the previous trim, only that the trims lasted a long time. How long?

    Quote Originally Posted by Secret Storm View Post
    I also want to know what the holes in his RH frog are. He's not lame but I just wanted to know if I need to treat them with something. I didn't see them until after my Farrier left and he didn't say anything about them.

    I guess I just want reassuring.

    Thanks!

    Fran
    Since the holes appear to be small in size, I believe they are sweat glands. They would be filled with a white-ish clear fluid that smells different from thrushy stuff. I've found those while trimming frogs before and it smells rather salty. I've been taught that those glands help fight thrush bacteria...which is ever present in a horse's environment. Otherwise the frogs appear to be healthy and large. In the before views it looked as though there was an entire rim of wall above the sole plane...I like to refer to this as a "natural shoe". Is the pasture footing soft? I often see this sort of wall formation with horses that live on sod. And the bars weren't all over the place but where they belong. Again, that is something rarely seen with the Farrier trims in my area...or online for that matter! There was a little flaring in the lower toe walls in the LF and RH. It is likely due to the higher heels with the LF and I'm not sure about the RH since the heels didn't appear all that high but I would have backed the toe of that foot more as it still looked a tad long in the after lateral pic. And it is difficult to judge how much concavity the feet have by sole views. Do you have any oblique photos of his feet you could post?

    Do you ever touch up Storm's hooves between trims? If so, you could take your rasp and vertically back the RH toe up just to the whiteline. It would help get rid of the separation there and likely allow that to tighten up.

    Tree
    Last edited by Tree; Dec. 3, 2008 at 10:07 AM.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
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    That's what someone else said. Wouldn't it make Storm sore if too much was taken out? He's been great, even after the trims.
    From what I see it affects healthy bare hooves and hooves that have always been bare less, than it does unhealthy bare hooves - still this much frog trimming should be avoided. Only lose pieces should be taken off. Over time, consistent thinning of the frog and sole may lead to soreness and I would not take that chance.

    I still think the LH was taken too low in the heels - it looked better before.

    Hrm...if the horse had subclinical laminitis, wouldn't she have noticed lamenes though?
    No, not necessarily - that's why the early stages are often missed,. Often some warning signs are there, but nobody gives them a second thought because they causes no obvious symptoms.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar. 10, 2003
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
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    This hoof bothers me the most ... I would take care of this straight away:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...COTH12-08a.gif

    The others don't look *too* bad ... they all need some tweaking here and there. Watch the toes and watch the heels. There is flaring and separation as has already been noted. The hooves can be soaked in a solution of borax and water once or twice a week for a couple of weeks to help with any garbage there might be. Walking on a tarred road for at least 10 mins a day will works wonders! Barefoot with no boots. Hand walk or ride, either one.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  15. #15
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    Oct. 19, 2005
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    Yes, but you may not be able to go this far in one trim, without possibly making the horse sore. However, the hoof should not have looked as bad before. It means it's either not trimmed frequently enough to get it better balanced or more needs to be taken down , if it can be safely done, each trim.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 27, 2008
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    Zone 7
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    258

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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    This hoof bothers me the most ... I would take care of this straight away:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...COTH12-08a.gif

    The others don't look *too* bad ... they all need some tweaking here and there. Watch the toes and watch the heels. There is flaring and separation as has already been noted. The hooves can be soaked in a solution of borax and water once or twice a week for a couple of weeks to help with any garbage there might be. Walking on a tarred road for at least 10 mins a day will works wonders! Barefoot with no boots. Hand walk or ride, either one.
    I love the diagram, to me, no expert, this foot look a bit clubby, you diagram shows possibly lowering the heal and helping out the angle. How'd you do that, photo shop or what?



  17. #17
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    Mar. 10, 2003
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    Massachusetts, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Yes, but you may not be able to go this far in one trim, without possibly making the horse sore.
    If one were to trim back the toe at a 90* angle then it would cause soreness BUT ... work from the white line to the distal edge with a 45* angle and you'll avoid that but still get the toe back and the hoof balancing better on the COA.
    --Gwen <><
    "Treat others as you want to be treated and be the change you want to see in the world."
    http://www.thepenzancehorse.com



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 18, 2005
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
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    580

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    Quote Originally Posted by caballus View Post
    This hoof bothers me the most ... I would take care of this straight away:

    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...COTH12-08a.gif

    The others don't look *too* bad ... they all need some tweaking here and there. Watch the toes and watch the heels. There is flaring and separation as has already been noted. The hooves can be soaked in a solution of borax and water once or twice a week for a couple of weeks to help with any garbage there might be. Walking on a tarred road for at least 10 mins a day will works wonders! Barefoot with no boots. Hand walk or ride, either one.
    Would they be able to lower the heels that much though? It's hard for me to tell from the photos, but it doesn't look like the collateral grooves are all that deep. Would the muscles in the shoulders be able to relax that much soon enough for a heel lowered that much at once?

    Where else would you be tweaking on the others?



  19. #19
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    Jul. 18, 2005
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    Ontario, Canada
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    No, not necessarily - that's why the early stages are often missed,. Often some warning signs are there, but nobody gives them a second thought because they causes no obvious symptoms.
    I dunno, I'm not completely convinced though that you can have subclinical laminitis (S.L.)without some sort of discomfort or soreness. There are times when a horse seems to be moving kind of "dinky" (as Dr. Rooney would coin), and the vets suspect S.L.

    I was always taught that when there is stretching (or also tearing) in the lamina that that cause discomfort in the horse.



  20. #20
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    Dec. 2, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by decorum View Post
    If you look at his toes from the bottom before the trim he has a little ditch between the sole and the wall, that is seperation. After the trim it is less noticable since the length of wall is lessened but you can still see, it looks like stretched laminae. It actually seems to show up worst in his RH? It is the last pic.

    If he is great after a trim despite the sole being taken out then that is wonderful! That is what matters most, the horse's comfort.

    Does he have any unusual fat pads? Maybe a cresty neck, some fat next to his tail head? I may be wrong in my angle here, I haven't seen him or his feet in person and this is hard to do without all the info.
    I think I see what you mean when I look at the RH and then the LF. I had Storm standing on the farm driveway and even though it is packed gravel and dirt, it was wet so it was hard to keep his feet clean for the photos. I took my hoof pick and cleaned out the separation in the LF as best as I could and it was not very deep. The RH was flat, no separations. I should have cleaned that foot off better before taking the photos.

    He is comfortable.

    He has a bit of a belly but no odd fat pads anywhere. Between my girls and I, he gets a lot of exercise. We are a one-horse family.

    Thanks,

    Fran



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