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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
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    Florida, USA
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    779

    Unhappy What is happening to the equestrian world?

    So I needed to hear opinions on this... I'll give you the quick version of the story... Knew a horse 3 years ago, I rode him for the owners (who are very close friends) for over a year... He is a very nice horse to ride. He is however a "bucker" for the first 2-3 mins at a lope/canter. Now mind you, we had the chiropractor out, had the saddle fitted to him and had the vet check his back/hocks/stiffles... He only did it the first time you cantered him and then was done.. I'd pretty much call him a "cold backed" horse. Unbelievable team roping and cow working horse though. He knows his job. Sold him to some other friends who seemed to be able to deal with the bucking (was very open about the whole bucking situation). Well these people work at the track and just came back to Florida for the winter. They came and boarded the horse in question with me and he hasn't been acting right. Head held low all the time, droopy eye, not eating, his poop looks like cow patties... so I called the owners and let them know that he doesn't really look right (we are boarders by the way but they had called saying they didn't have time to come out and call them if anything was wrong). They said it could be the trip, volunteered to let them take some of my probiotics. Well the barn owner called them this weekend, because the horse looks very out of it... They confessed they "30 day tranqualized him". Mind you they are team roping off of him 3-4 times a week while tranqd...
    Does this happen often? I think it is complete B.S. and I won't tolerate it around (neither will the barn owner btw). Has anyone ever seen horses asked to perform and be that drugged?????
    It's very sickening to me... If they can't handle him.. Change his diet, lunge him before you ride.... And if it doesn't work, SELL him or give him away for all I care...



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 6, 2003
    Location
    CT
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    3,447

    Default

    Yes, I have seen horses drugged that heavily to ride, but only for the first handful of rides coming back from injury.

    Do a search here for something to the effect of ethics & sedating horses in a lesson program. I think it was a collegiate program. This has been debated quite a bit, and some feel ti's perfectly acceptible.

    I'm more inclined to share the OP's opinion, though.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 19, 2007
    Posts
    846

    Default

    I've seen horses drugged that heavily to ride, too. But, a "30 day tranq" will not cause the symptoms you describe. A "30 day tranq" - I use quotes because they really aren't tranquilizers - used properly won't be obvious at all. Ask them how much they gave him and if he always has this reaction. It most likely is something else causing him to not feel well.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    Some people always have and always will self medicate to solve training problems-and this one does have one with the bucking.

    It has been ever thus. Not my way or choice but not mine to make when it is not my horse.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    I have used resperpine more times than I can remember and I guarantee you that you wouldn't have been able to tell. Some do get a day or two of cow pies but other than that they are the same as always, just a little less reactive. I doubt that is the cause of what you are seeing.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Florida, USA
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    779

    Default

    Thanks for letting me know that the side effects shouldn't last more than a couple of days... so either way, he's still not right...
    Laurierace... you've used Resperpine on horses that were being worked and competed on?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2007
    Location
    Spring Grove, PA
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    848

    Default

    I have not used Reserpine as much as Laurierace has, but my experience is basically the same. Some horses will get cow patty poop for a day or 2, then it returns to normal. You cannot tell these horses are drugged at all. They are not 'slow' or dopey. Just less sensitive to things. And yes, you can use it on horses that are in work.

    I would say this horse does not sound like he has been 30 day tranqed, aka, had Reserpine.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 13, 2006
    Posts
    2,449

    Default

    We have used Resperine for long term lay-ups and first rides back on several horses (never to compete, just to not get killed getting started again), and same thing as others, cow pie poop for 4 days max, seem a bit quieter in the stall (not even sure you would notice if you didn't know the horse), and under saddle not as inclined to head for the hills if a leaf blows. They are still reactive and brightly forward, just not explosive. I would be inclined to think the horse you are speaking of has something else going on. Resperine is pretty mild in comparison to others and doesn't even touch some horses.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Florida, USA
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    779

    Default Thanks everyone...

    Thank you for sharing your experiences...
    I'm starting to think it was a home-made deal... like a lot of people at the race track... a lot of cocktails are made.
    He was "tranqd" 10 days ago and is not moving... he use to be bright eyed, now he just stands there, doesn't move even when turned out and the manure is just... cowish...



  10. #10
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    Mar. 8, 2004
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    Baltimore, MD
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    Default

    Yes I raced horses that were treated with resperine after the alloted withdrawl period which varies by state. Some horses it didn't help at all, one horse it worked absolute miracles on. I would be more inclined to think the horse is sick than to blame it on the tranq. Perhaps a vet work up including some blood work is a good idea. I would hate for you overlook an illness because you thought you already knew the cause.



  11. #11
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Has anyone considered calling the vet?



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Florida, USA
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    Default

    I suggested it to the owner (calling the vet). The owners are so sure that it's a "normal" response from the tranq that they aren't worried. They said it happens every time... I really can't do much and calling the vet for them isn't really an option since he's not my horse. I just don't think that his behavior is normal no matter what the horse is on! Especially not for 10 days!!!



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 20, 2008
    Location
    Florida, USA
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    Default

    Oh and by the way... Resperine is illegal to use under the United States Equestrian Federation...
    I totally understand it's use for horses that are injured or coming back from an injury but in no way do I agree using it on a competing animal.
    If people have to do it in order to be able to ride their horse... you obviously have the wrong type of horse for your level of riding....



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    Default

    They've done something NQR to that horse, but it's not your horse. There's precious little you can do. If you bump into the owners you can tell 'em how good he used to be, sure a little humpy when you first loped off, but such a good horse. Now he's, well...look at him.

    If they are open to considering he ain't right, go from there. If NOT- well, there's really just nothing to be done short of buying him and making him your vet bill.

    I'm sorry, but that's just the world and honey, it ain't new and never has been.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2007
    Location
    Hampshire, IL
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    778

    Default

    drugging a horse to ride it just seems like poor horsemanship all round, to me.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan. 20, 2007
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    449

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jumpingmaya View Post
    Oh and by the way... Resperine is illegal to use under the United States Equestrian Federation...
    I totally understand it's use for horses that are injured or coming back from an injury but in no way do I agree using it on a competing animal.
    If people have to do it in order to be able to ride their horse... you obviously have the wrong type of horse for your level of riding....
    Agree with Laurierace -- reserpine is not this 'terrible' drug that only people that don't know what they are doing use. It is actually a very useful drug when needed & helps a lot of horses. Yes, they do 'run & win' with this drug after the withdrawal time (varies between states...averages around 7) and you 'usually' can't even notice the difference besides the horse being not as reactive. Some horses are affected more than others & since this trainer states that he's like that all the time then I would let it be as he should know how his horse reacts to the drug. As long as the horse is eating & drinking normally now....... If he was off his feed for just the first day or two than that would probably be more than likely from the trip.
    Instead of talking bad about this owner, I would put this in the same category as if you wanted to give your horse a vitamin & he didn't. If you feel the horse is 'actually sick' then I would pursue it, but otherwise I'd leave well enough alone --- he's their horse -- not yours. What one person does with their horse isn't always the right thing in anothers eyes. Sometimes it's better to be safe than sorry.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webmistress32 View Post
    drugging a horse to ride it just seems like poor horsemanship all round, to me.
    Me too.
    I am glad that we didn't have any other than ACE when we were training and only knew of one trainer that used some to start colts.
    Training thru chemistry.



  18. #18
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webmistress32 View Post
    drugging a horse to ride it just seems like poor horsemanship all round, to me.
    I am sure you would feel differently if you had a horse on long term stall rest that was back on limited work and still no turn out.



  19. #19
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    Jan. 4, 2007
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    TX
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by trubandloki View Post
    I am sure you would feel differently if you had a horse on long term stall rest that was back on limited work and still no turn out.
    I don't think that is the case here at all, but a horse that is too much for the rider and may possibly be on Reserpine continuously.



  20. #20
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    Sep. 2, 2005
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    Upstate NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bluey View Post
    I don't thnk that is the case here at all.
    Oh, I do not disagree with that. But webmistress made a blanket statement.



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