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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2005
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    missoula. mt
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    1,630

    Default IDEAL

    I don't hear much about him on these forums. Who has bred to him, and to what type of mare? I've always loved his look but am new at this so anyone with info on him or experiences please share!
    Thanks



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
    Posts
    9,410

    Default

    Ideal at the UltimatePiaffe in Washington State?

    I've never bred period, but I have a grandson of Inschallah, and I think any horse who comes out of that line is wonderful. Movement, conformation and all.



  3. #3
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    Nov. 20, 2005
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    missoula. mt
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by cloudyandcallie View Post
    Ideal at the UltimatePiaffe in Washington State?

    I've never bred period, but I have a grandson of Inschallah, and I think any horse who comes out of that line is wonderful. Movement, conformation and all.
    Yeah- The Ultimate Piaffe IDEAL! Thanks Cloudy that's good to know.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, NC
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    Default

    We have not bred to him but we have a mare by him. We purchased her from her breeder and she is out of a heavy Argentinus/Gepard mare. The breeder said this mare was a HUGE improvement on the dam in the rear end - she has THE BEST canter like I've never sat on, exceptionally light in front and balanced, effortless natural canter to walk, never heavy. Supposedly the dam was quite heavy on the forehand. She is a super good hunter mover and a very scopey natural jumper. There was not too much improvement on the head - not bad, short but just a bit plain and lacks femininity. She is a little short in the leg, compact and not too big (dam was 16.1h but this was her first foal) - was a premium foal at inspections. She is also very quiet. She was a hunter but could have easily gone into the dressage world with her elegant, floating movement and amazing balance. She has produced several lovely foals for us, the first of which is standing top 10 in the nation in 2 yo HB!

    We try to pair her with a leggier, modern stallion with an equally good rear end, a bit longer frame, and a nice head/throat. So far we have been very pleased! Hope this helps!
    Last edited by Signature; Nov. 30, 2008 at 10:40 AM.
    Signature Sporthorses
    www.signaturesporthorses.com



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2000
    Location
    SW of Olde Hogtown
    Posts
    2,754

    Default

    I have produced 7 or 8 foals by him. I would have to count them... All of them were improvements over the dam. The vast majority of them were recognized by the judges as premium foals. The one mare I took to approvals was also premium with 107 bonits.

    All of them sold easily. I have kept track of a few of them. They are winning at dressage.

    Ideal produces a modern type. Their movement is suitable for dressage, but they are also talented at jumping. He produces longer legs, a good neck set, well developed hind end. All of them had exquisite legs.

    He is definitely an improvement sire. Their temperaments were excellent and they were easy to train.

    I highly recommend him to improve any mare. You will not be disappointed. Carol Ives is excellent to work with, also. Her main goal is to get your mare in foal.

    Pat
    (Oakleigh)



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2007
    Posts
    196

    Default I bred three....

    All three had very good temperments. 2/3 were premium foals. He produces a tall horse if the dam is tall. He crosses well with TB's as I believe he is an older style. He has many, many sons and daughters here in the PNW and many in sport. I think he is frozen only now.......



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan. 28, 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    4,715

    Default

    I have always, always wanted to discuss Ideal, not for the reason of discussing the stallion himself, but discussing how he was promoted back in the mid-90's. Now, I haven't seen any recent video of him but, back in the mid-90's, I had requested a stallion video of Ideal. What came in the mail was absolutely bizarre! I know I'm going to probably get flamed for this but it was truly bizarre to watch.

    An obviously lovely stallion, he was being shown in lower level dressage with an absolutely large, large lady riding him (I'm trying to be really nice here but she had to be pushing 250 lbs. at least). I've never seen anything like it and the free walk was just horrific to watch being ridden. And despite the poor match and bad riding, that stallion still seemed to just float across the ground and do his job perfectly. I know not everybody can afford a professional training but, come on!! Then, the video moved on to the large lady schooling him at home in their dark indoor arena. She had on some kind of a summer tank top that was really sloppy and kept falling off of her shoulder and was in much need of support and she used hand signals to move Ideal around the arena. It was interesting to watch but really tacky and trashy and I had decided not to use him on our mare. The end of the video showed a man riding Ideal in the same arena, bareback and without a bridle on, at a canter around the arena and then he leaps off in to the sunset. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after watching that. It was truly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen on video.

    In my opinion, there is no way I wanted to breed to a stallion who was being so poorly promoted and represented on camera. It's nice to see that the magnificence of the stallion outshone the bizarre management of him. I actually still have it on video somewhere. I sure hope the promotion of him got better over the years. Jeez, he's got to be well into his 20's now I think.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals www.EquineAppraisers.com



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
    Location
    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
    Posts
    8,599

    Default

    I bred to him several times. All wonderful foals that sold easily and went on to good careers in the show ring. His owners are a dream to work with, too.

    Daventry, what I got out of that same video was good views of a lovely conformed and moving stallion with a temperament that is incredibly good. I couldn't care less how a SO promotes their stallion. If the stallion is good and the right match for my mare and has a temperament like THAT, then count me in as a breeder to him.
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 17, 2007
    Location
    Cloverdale, Ca.
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    1,614

    Default

    I have not bred to him but every foal I've seen by him is an improvement on the dam. Ideal is prepotent for modern type, long legs, correct conformation, exquisite heads and necks, and breathtaking movement.

    I have bought horses from Carol and she's very professional and a dream to work with.
    Chris Misita
    www.hiddenvalleyfarms.net Home of Bravo and Warrick!
    To dare; progress comes at this price. All sublime conquests are, more or less, the rewards of daring.
    Victor Hugo



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 2006
    Location
    Eastern Washington
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    1,641

    Default

    I have went to a couple shows and inspections with his foals there and their owners have been thrilled with them, and I can agree with them. I know that what I have seen, I have been wanting to breed a couple mares to him. His foals are just beautiful and have lovely movement.
    Unbridled Oaks - Champion Sport Ponies and Welsh Cobs

    Like us on Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/unbridledoaks



  11. #11
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    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    Daventry, what I got out of that same video was good views of a lovely conformed and moving stallion with a temperament that is incredibly good. I couldn't care less how a SO promotes their stallion. If the stallion is good and the right match for my mare and has a temperament like THAT, then count me in as a breeder to him.
    I certainly can't disagree on the video showing a great and patient temperament and a good mover. But, with there being so many fabulous stallions out there to choose from, not only do I want to pick the best stallion for my mare, but one that is promoted in the best light as it certainly reflects on the ease of selling the foals...and possibly their selling price. I just didn't think that video did that stallion any justice at all and was worried about how they were promoting him off screen, if that's what they thought was OK to send out to prospective Mare Owners.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals www.EquineAppraisers.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
    Posts
    5,067

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Daventry View Post
    I have always, always wanted to discuss Ideal, not for the reason of discussing the stallion himself, but discussing how he was promoted back in the mid-90's. Now, I haven't seen any recent video of him but, back in the mid-90's, I had requested a stallion video of Ideal. What came in the mail was absolutely bizarre! I know I'm going to probably get flamed for this but it was truly bizarre to watch.

    An obviously lovely stallion, he was being shown in lower level dressage with an absolutely large, large lady riding him (I'm trying to be really nice here but she had to be pushing 250 lbs. at least). I've never seen anything like it and the free walk was just horrific to watch being ridden. And despite the poor match and bad riding, that stallion still seemed to just float across the ground and do his job perfectly. I know not everybody can afford a professional training but, come on!! Then, the video moved on to the large lady schooling him at home in their dark indoor arena. She had on some kind of a summer tank top that was really sloppy and kept falling off of her shoulder and was in much need of support and she used hand signals to move Ideal around the arena. It was interesting to watch but really tacky and trashy and I had decided not to use him on our mare. The end of the video showed a man riding Ideal in the same arena, bareback and without a bridle on, at a canter around the arena and then he leaps off in to the sunset. I didn't know whether to laugh or cry after watching that. It was truly the most bizarre thing I've ever seen on video.

    In my opinion, there is no way I wanted to breed to a stallion who was being so poorly promoted and represented on camera. It's nice to see that the magnificence of the stallion outshone the bizarre management of him. I actually still have it on video somewhere. I sure hope the promotion of him got better over the years. Jeez, he's got to be well into his 20's now I think.
    I received the same video and had the same thoughts you did, Daventry.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sonesta View Post
    I bred to him several times. All wonderful foals that sold easily and went on to good careers in the show ring. His owners are a dream to work with, too.

    Daventry, what I got out of that same video was good views of a lovely conformed and moving stallion with a temperament that is incredibly good. I couldn't care less how a SO promotes their stallion. If the stallion is good and the right match for my mare and has a temperament like THAT, then count me in as a breeder to him.
    I don't think it's so much the fact that others weren't able to see through that, but what it left in my mind was: If we can't even get a professional sporthorse video done on the stallion, then are these folks professional enough to know what they are doing with all that is required in shipping semen? I'm glad to hear that they are, but I know they missed out on a LOT more business because of the ahem, strange video.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2003
    Posts
    18,472

    Default

    I remember that video. I watched it w/my trainer at the time, who sucked in her breath and then finally.. finally.. said "that horse is an effing SAINT".

    In a way, it was the best advertisement for him that there could have been.

    I have seen a fair amount of his kids and I always like them, they look like they've come out of a cookie cutter of him.
    "Kindness is free" ~ Eurofoal
    ---
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances.



  14. #14
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    Jan. 28, 2002
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    Alberta, Canada
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dune View Post

    I don't think it's so much the fact that others weren't able to see through that, but what it left in my mind was: If we can't even get a professional sporthorse video done on the stallion, then are these folks professional enough to know what they are doing with all that is required in shipping semen? I'm glad to hear that they are, but I know they missed out on a LOT more business because of the ahem, strange video.
    My thoughts exactly. I also knew many mare owners that contemplated breeding to him but walked away for the same reason. Sounds like the stallion has had much success despite. His foals are certainly fabulous.


    Quote Originally Posted by EqTrainer
    I remember that video. I watched it w/my trainer at the time, who sucked in her breath and then finally.. finally.. said "that horse is an effing SAINT".
    We said the same thing.
    www.DaventryEquestrian.com
    Home of Oldenburg & RPSI approved pony stallions Daventry's Power Play & Goldhills Brandysnap
    Also home to Daventry Equine Appraisals www.EquineAppraisers.com



  15. #15
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    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    Sunbury, NC
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    1,789

    Default

    Most people don't "see through" poor presentation it seems...they only see what is and not what could be. We see it constantly with people's sale videos; lack of professionalism and attention to detail, plus failure to show off the horse at its best, often results in little to no interest in what really is a nice horse if you can "see through" (i.e. have an "eye" I suppose). The Germans have this marketing advantage pegged for sure - each horse is immaculately groomed, most of the time braided and rider dressed in neat, attractive clothing for video footage. It's too bad Ideal's presentation alone resulted in less breeding opportunities for him, as he definitely is a lovely stallion with a great produce record.
    Signature Sporthorses
    www.signaturesporthorses.com



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    633

    Default ISAIAH

    I bred a colt by him, out of a Fatalist/Matcho AA/Graphit/Gotthard mother, sold it as a 2 year old stallion prospect, and the new owner got him approved and licensed. His name is ISAIAH. You can find him at www.missionbayfarm.com "Izzy" is a beautiful, talented riding horse and would make a wonderful choice for someone looking for a really talented stallion with a super mind. Contact Laura at Mission Bay and she would be happy to tell you all about Izzy.

    IDEAL is no longer being used to provide fresh semen as he is now 25 years old. I believe they do sell frozen semen. The owners are very nice and have done a great job promoting the stallion.

    He is a very modern type with 3 generations of French blood in the front of his pedigree. In my opinion, he works best on warmblood mares, but has been used on lots of thoroughbreds. I would not use him on a TB because I think they are a bit too "keen". But some folks just love them.

    Dave
    August Moon Farm
    www.augustmoonfarm.com



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Feb. 23, 1999
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    Cypress, near Houston, Texas
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    8,599

    Default

    Ah, yes. Izzy! He was here to be taught to use the free jump chute in preparation for his stallion licensing. He is a lovely stallion with some much presence! Great mind, too! And his owners are wonderful!
    Visit Sonesta Farms website at www.sonestafarms.com or our FaceBook page at www.facebook.com/sonestafarms. Also showing & breeding Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2003
    Location
    Shenandoah Valley, VA
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    1,356

    Default Isaiah

    I have a foal this year by Isaiah. I had the priveledge of riding in a clinic with Laura and Izzy when he was just 4 and fell in love with his beauty and temperment. The filly I got is absolutely spectacular. Definitely a keeper. She scored 8.3 for movement and 8.2 for overall impression at her Oldenburg inspection. She is out of an appendix QH mare! (This mare does throw very nice foals, but this was one of the nicest and the highest scoring foal). I have always admired Ideal and wanted to breed to him. When I met Izzy, I knew this was my chance to have an Ideal granddaughter.



  19. #19
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    Aug. 8, 2001
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    up the hill from the little river (that floods alarmingly often)
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    Default

    My old trainer bred her Selle Francais mare to him based on that video. I think she had some rather ... interesting ... comments about what a nice mind that stallion must have had.

    I haven't kept in touch with her, unfortunately. I would like to know how that filly's doing ... she'd be coming five now.
    Full-time bargain hunter.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2003
    Location
    Midwest
    Posts
    921

    Default

    I'm actually pretty astounded by some of the comments people are making on that video, the level of "professionalism" it represents, etc.

    Were there some veyr non-traditional things in the video? Absolutely.

    But as a veteran shopper for stallions who relies heavily on video to determine whether I want to pursue additional information on a stallion, I have to say that the Ultimate Piaffe videos were *dramatically* better marketing tools from an informational standpoint than 90% of the other videos I've gotten from stallion owners.

    Here is what I have come to want in a stallion video and almost NEVER see in one location:

    1. Footage of the stallion both under saddle and moving free
    2. Conformation shots without tack
    3. Footage of stallion both doing dressage (level appropriate to training) AND over fences, regardless of horse's chosen discipline
    4. Footage of foals out of a variety of mares, moving free and under saddle in chosen disciplines

    I have had several stallion owners take *years* (LITERALLY) to send me conformation shots of their stallions without tack. Probably only about 40% of the videos I receive actually contain live footage of offspring, and of those most don't tell you the breeding of the mare. Most show only dressage or jumping, not both... which is annoying if you're looking at a dressage-bred stallion who is being marketed as a hunter stallion. Plus I fully expect all my dressage stallions to be athletically capable of at least getting over a small gymnastic without killing himself.

    And interestingly, the Ideal videos always have TONS of offpsring footage out of many different types of mares. I never ended up breeding to him because such a small percent went to FEI dressage levels, but geez, as far as providing information on the stallion I thought their videos were quite good!

    On their professionalism... I have to say that if you think the Ives' are not professional, I'm guessing you're not from their area. I purchased my mare from a friend out that direction, and she told me a hilarious story about how they will show up at inspections and shows where their stallion's offspring are being presented, and the "Ultimate Piaffe Mafia" will descend on the horse, polish and groom it to within an inch of it's life like a hoard of circling sharks, and when the horse re-emerges it's like one of those cartoons of the dentist where you see someone's smile and there is a huge sparkle accompanied by the little "gleam, gleam" dinging sound.

    From a presentation standpoint, it sounds pretty professional to me! *shrug*

    And I have to admit, I'm a little confused by those who think that the tank top worn by the woman in the video reflects her professionalism? Their website is stacked with statistics on their stallion's production record, references, breeding statistics.... I would think that would carry more weight on their ability to get your mare in foal than a tank top in a video!

    Spectrum.



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