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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2007
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    Bay Area, CA
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    42

    Default Florencio Frozen?

    Does anyone know if it is possible to breed to this stallion here in the States? Is there any frozen EVA negative semen left? What is the temperament like of his foals? Any information would be appreciated.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
    Posts
    3,675

    Default

    I have a three year old by him. See my homepage for pictures. She is never spooking but she was very awake and forward going - tense in the first months under saddle. Certanly not a horse for a pro barn and an amateur may have been afraid. Now she is settling in. So it did take her longer that a lot of horses I know ! She did inherit the great walk of her dam and sire. unfortunately not the freedom of shoulder that I wanted to gain by using him. She also inherited a very good active hindleg from both mum and dad. We see her career in 3 day/eventing. She is very people oriented and loves to be hugged and padded.
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Foals 2014: Black filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    Black colt Likoto xx - Florencio - Prince Thatch xx



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
    Posts
    8,271

    Default

    You can get frozen semen and it is good. However it is EVA positive, so your mare would need to be vaccinated prior to breeding. Search for threads on EVA and you will get lots of info.

    I have a Florencio. His temperament is excellent. He is a happy, goofy, easy boy. Soon to be started under saddle.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
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    Default

    I've had two Florencio foals and they couldn't be any easier.... One filly at 2-years old manages to be a little drama queen on occasion but nothing bad or extreme. The other one had an eye injury as a very young foal and the treating vets couldn't believe how calm and good she was about getting 4 different kinds of eye ointments three times a day! She is a long yearling now and still extremely good natured according to her new owner (and she is out of a mare by Jazz who has the reputation of being spooky!!). :-)
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
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    42

    Default

    Mary Lou- do you know who carries his frozen? Thanks for the information! But I wonder if it will be worth the headache of vaccinating my mare?



  6. #6
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    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
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    Default

    I believe that you order from Nijhof and they have suppliers here in the states. Siegi may have more input as my Florencio was imported in utero.

    The EVA vaccination is really a good idea for anyone using frozen semen from Europe. I vaccinate all my mares and the fillies that I might keep.

    See details here:

    http://www.team-nijhof.nl/



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep. 20, 2002
    Location
    Hannover, Germany
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by siegi b. View Post
    I've had two Florencio foals and they couldn't be any easier.... One filly at 2-years old manages to be a little drama queen on occasion but nothing bad or extreme. The other one had an eye injury as a very young foal and the treating vets couldn't believe how calm and good she was about getting 4 different kinds of eye ointments three times a day! She is a long yearling now and still extremely good natured according to her new owner (and she is out of a mare by Jazz who has the reputation of being spooky!!). :-)
    It is difficult to describe mine. But yes maybe to be a bit of a drama queen on occasion can describe her. But on the other hand she was/is very cool e.g. if suddenly noises arouse or strange things appear where others spoke. Handling her from foal on was nice and easy, but when it can to start working all took her a bit longer to sort of accept and relax. e.g. quite a few halter broke because she did not want to be tied: Cure cross teid in the isle and than a lungeline tied directly behind her, no way to move backwards. After three weeks no attempt anymore. She hates manepulling. She really hates it. So I am not even trying without nosetwitch. So she is calm and electric/awake at the same time. but now as she is more and more under sddle she is getting much more relaxed. It is difficult to describe. the person riding her never was afraid as she said she will not make any bad move and that is right never a buck no rearing. just forward tendency. A pro might have not taken that sort of behaviour and might have worked against it with pressure and not taking time. We were just going on and on and on, eventually she will learn to be eeeeeasy we said. And it is right. On the other hand I went on my own to mare show with her. I had ust one not riding person with me to hand me things and do little errands and I had a person running her. So it was just me getting her of the trailor, getting her ready and walk her until her time. i also did the wlak ring part of her show. She behaved like an angel with all those wild (some running loose) 2 yo aroung her from the previous class.
    Id say she is just pretty clever and she is also running running running when you take her to a field. hence we thought she needs a sport where she can run as much as she wants: 3 day !
    I am not responsible for spelling misstacks - just my PC
    www.hannoveranerzuechter.de
    Foals 2014: Black filly Londontime - Sandro Hit - Rouletto
    Black colt Likoto xx - Florencio - Prince Thatch xx



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 7, 2001
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,464

    Default

    We've had 5 of them born here so far, they have all been beautiful types and clear improvements to their dams. Our oldest are 2.5yo now. The filly that sold to AUS they have sat on (but just barn-play bareback standing with just a halter and leadrope on). I just spoke to someone who gave a dressage clinic where she lives and he thought she was looking extremely promising.
    Temperamentwise I have no complaints whatsoever. The colts are on the quiet end of the spectrum, if anything I would want them to be a bit more alert. Nothing ever startles them. The first filly was the same way (out of a Don Bosco-Archipel-Perser xx dam). The brightest filly has been the one out of our Hohenstein-Perser xx-Firnis mare. She is also smarter than anyone else in this crop (which was already a smart crop to begin with *LOL*) and an extremely quick learner. This one was a little headshy at first but not the kind that wants to give you trouble.
    Those Florencio's I have seen under saddle or sat on by now have all been auction horses so not a representative bunch. Those were supereasy rides though, often not the biggest movers in the trot but generally with good walk and canter. Often bays with some white. There were two in the preselection I attended yesterday one of which got accepted vor the January auction. Both clearly improved under saddle, they didn't look very attractive 'naked' but with a rider on they both took on beautiful, expressive frames and looked extremely pleasant.
    So far I have only met one that was difficult (which was also the highest selling one beside the licensed ones at the stallion market, he sold for six figures as a 3yo). That one was really iffy and uncooperative. Taking off on the lunge-line with or without rider on-type-uncooperative. I look very forward to seeing what will become of ours under saddle. For what it's worth I no longer own any of them apart from one colt I still hold 20% They all sold rather easily. I would watch for a good trot in the mare.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct. 1, 2008
    Posts
    164

    Default

    This perspective may be of limited value, as I only have one Florencio and he was imported in utero, but the resultant colt that we have is quite possibly the best natured colt we've ever bred. He has a HUGE trot, which garners comments every time he launches into it, and all of his parts connect just as they should. His dam (Silvio/Feiner Stern/ Egale III), though, is also an exceptionally good mover, so I have to give her a great amount of credit also. He's a 2008 baby, so it's hard to say what will appear when it's time to back him, but so far he has accepted everything that we've done (we're a small farm, so we do a lot) with ease. He went to the GOV show in September (a long 10 hour drive) and handled all the hustle and bustle with dignity and confidence. He's not a dead quiet kind of colt in the sense that he is very alert and reacts to handling very quickly, but he strikes me as one that will figure things out and if you just show him what is expected, he enthusiastically steps up to the plate. I honestly am not trying very hard to sell him as he's no problem to live with and I can't wait to see what he becomes. I did, by the way, innoculate the mare prior to breeding and it took two years of breeding and board in Germany to get this colt, but he is definitely worth the extra effort. Early pictures can be seen at www.vermontwarmbloods.com



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
    Location
    Waterford, VA USA
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    Default

    I agree with all of the temperament descriptions of Florencio foals... they're charming and will appeal to a lot of folks with their intelligence. One thing to watch out for is lack of size - in Europe Florencio has somewhat of a reputation for "making ponies" and there are some smaller offspring out there.

    And yes, Team Nijhof is the place to contact for semen in the US. They store it in California but you order through them.
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



  11. #11
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    Jun. 7, 2001
    Location
    Germany
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    Default

    I don't know. The pony thing seems to very much depend on the damline. Ours have all been at least as tall as their dams. One measured a solid 16.1 1/2 h as a yearling... That being said I do know of a couple smaller ones as well but those have been mostly Oldenburg or Eastern Frisian damlines which tend to be on the smaller side to begin with. We are always quick over here to turn out observations into general sweeping statements...



  12. #12
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    Sep. 5, 2004
    Location
    Trappe, MD
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    461

    Default

    I have two Florencio fillies. One which is three that was started this year and won the Oldenburg GOV Mare Performance Test in the US. She is sensitive but an incredible ride. Very balanced and forward. Everything was easy for her under saddle. Flossie is in foal this year but will be a competition horse after she foals. She is 16.3 as a three year old and very powerful...but she comes form a mostly Holsteiner background.

    The other is a yearling and looks much more like Florencio. She too is a very nice mover if not as powerful as the first. But she too comes from an excellent damline ( Alassio/Al Martino)

    I adore Florencio but would save him for my best moving mares. And he desires them!

    I would not use him on an average moving mare. Think you might be disappointed.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2008
    Posts
    39

    Default

    anyone: does Florencio often improve the hind end?
    I'm loving what I'm hearing about him so far though. Also, does anyone have any older (more developed) horses by him? How's the ability for collection?

    Thanks!
    Chelsea.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb. 2, 2003
    Location
    Wynnewood, Oklahoma
    Posts
    5,195

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by HanoWB88 View Post
    Mary Lou- do you know who carries his frozen? Thanks for the information! But I wonder if it will be worth the headache of vaccinating my mare?
    Vaccinating for EVA is simple, easy and safe. It is STRONGLY recommended that anyone breeding with frozen semen from Europe, regardless of the known status of the semen. There have been a couple "uh oh's" from frozen semen that was purported to have been EVA negative only to find out after breeding, that wasn't the case. It is easy and just requires a small amount of forethought. It's not a major quarantining process, simply a matter of keeping the mare separate from other animals sufficiently that they cannot make physical contact with each other. There are a couple articles on our website including one we wrote with Dr. Timoney.

    Hope that helps!

    Kathy St.Martin
    Equine Reproduction Short Courses
    http://www.equine-reproduction.com
    Check out our Holiday Enrollment Special!



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug. 21, 2002
    Location
    Monclova
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    1,650

    Default Mares and EVA

    After your mare has been vaccinated against EVA, her [antibody] titer will forever show positive for EVA but it does NOT mean that the mare is forever EVA positive. Mares cannot shed the virus beyond the initial 21 days after vaccination or exposure to the virus.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 1, 2007
    Location
    Bay Area, CA
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    42

    Default

    So, my mare will need to be in quarantine 21 days after the vax, and then 20 days after the breeding? The problem is I don't own my own farm so this could be an issue.



  17. #17
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    May. 17, 2001
    Location
    New Hampshire/Florida
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    2,155

    Default

    Hi: You didn't indicate if your mare was imported or not. If imported, she might have a positive EVA titer and then you don't have to worry about vaccination.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2002
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    Waterford, VA USA
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    Joanne - the mare might even be positive if she was raised here. Lots of mares are and the owners just don't know it because it's usually not a problem.
    Siegi Belz
    www.stalleuropa.com
    2007 KWPN-NA Breeder of the Year
    Dutch Warmbloods Made in the U. S. A.



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