The Chronicle of the Horse
MagazineNewsHorse SportsHorse CareCOTH StoreVoicesThe Chronicle UntackedDirectoriesMarketplaceDates & Results
 
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 44
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May. 10, 2003
    Location
    central CA
    Posts
    1,503

    Default Hoof Gurus ??? re: Coronary band

    So, my clyde X (shown dressage) is having funny issues w/her coronary band. She was barefoot until almost exactly a year ago when a new trainer asked if I would try her in shoes. She was sound without them, but I have to admit, moved even better, she has truly amazing movement, but lengthenings, etc got stronger with the shoes on. Recently, we had some minor lameness issues and did some xrays. The xrays showed an irregular bump and blocking showed some issues in the fetlock (same area as the bump,) but nothing that involved her hooves. BUT, the vet was concerned that her coronary line is not straight-not even close. The shoer (who also works for my vet) was there during the xrays and agreed but didn't seem to have a reason for the change. He was aware of it and had made a few changes to the shoe job with no positive change to the coronary band. The vet asked if I could give my mare some time with nakey feet and see if there was improvement. The shoes were pulled yesterday and the shoer said, "You check that coronary band and tell me if you don't see improvement within 48 hours". Well, I thought that was crazy, 48 hours???? But, this morning (22 hours after the shoes were pulled) her coronary band is almost straight. I suspect by tomorrow it will be.
    Now, this is a very good, very well recommended farrier. I think he does a great job, he shows up without me (so I don't have to take time off work), my horse likes him, he's always been kind with her, BUT WTF???? what causes the coronary band to change shape/direction? BTW it was the same in both front feet. No change in the hinds.
    Don't toy with the dragon, for you are crunchy and good with ketchup!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 20, 2008
    Location
    U.S.A. Washington State
    Posts
    72

    Thumbs up Barefoot vs shoes

    I personally prefer barefoot. Horses hooves are like people's feet. None are perfect. They can flex as they need to when they are barefoot. The shoes restrict movement and blood flow. Horses have much healthier feet, includes
    the bones inside, cornet band etc. when they are barefoot and trimmed properly. I would say the shoes were tweaking his feet in a way that was not
    natural for him and so the bump which would be inflammation is my guess.
    See if you can just get the trim that will enable the horse to move better and not use constricting metal shoes.
    "A horse is not so much a possession of the body, as he is an obsession of the soul."

    http://myfineequine.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
    Location
    Sonoma County, California
    Posts
    2,506

    Default

    I think they call that a "push up" and yes, it can disappear within hours. It makes you realize that the hoof capsule is not some static box. It really moves and changes.

    It sounds like your horse would do well without shoes. Your farrier sounds like a good egg and good farriers are thrilled to have their clients' horses go barefoot. Could you try some front boots if you are needing some extra protection for schooling? I am about to take my dressage horse out of shoes and am going to use some easyboot epics on him.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,579

    Default

    The change in coronary band level is usually referred to as "jamming."

    But if your Clyde-X's hooves are anything like my Clyde-X's, then leave the shoes behind.

    Penny mare has amazing rock crushers. I've ridden her over the sharpest gravel, on concrete, on pavement, etc. for miles and her feet just get better. (I do trim myself, tho, so can keep up her between my trimmer's check ups. If I didn't her bars would be huge! )

    Would loff to see some pictures. I have a hoof fetish
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- "When they try to tell you these are your Golden years, don't believe 'em.... It's rust."



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    It actually is not the shoes causing the jamming in the coronet band but rather the trim is not right. I'm all for horses going shoeless when possible but I wanted to mention that. Blame the trim in this case and a jammed coronet band is not limited to shod horses.

    When a horse is barefoot, they relieve pressure on the quarters by flaring, chipping and breaking off hoof. It's also a sign of a bad trim but generally they can relieve the jamming themselves if given enough time. In shoes, the shoe prevents the hoof from self correcting so you might be more likely to see problems from that.

    I've seen a coronet band relax in only a few minutes during a trim when a correction was made that corrected an imbalance that was causing distortion of the coronet band.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    Could also have something to do with peripheral hoofwall loading thanks to the shoes. The coronet band is very dynamic: http://www.hoofrehab.com/coronet.htm



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2002
    Location
    Ontario Canada
    Posts
    2,195

    Default

    I have seen this also to fix it I have had sucess trimming to correct the jamming then walking the horse around before reapplying the shoes.

    I could be wrong(I am just an apprentice) but from what I have witnessed it can happen on a correct trim if the cycle goes to long.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2008
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    511

    Default

    what is causing this jamming? is it some part of the internal strucures inside the hoof being pushed upwards or outwards and causing the bulge?

    how does it work?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexie View Post
    what is causing this jamming? is it some part of the internal strucures inside the hoof being pushed upwards or outwards and causing the bulge?

    how does it work?
    It is the hoof wall itself pushing upwards that causes the jammed coronet band. Think of it for a minute...the hoof wall grows down from the coronet band and changes in the length and balance of the wall cause changes in the coronet band.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2008
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    511

    Default

    they relieve pressure on the quarters by flaring, chipping and breaking off hoof. It's also a sign of a bad trim but generally they can relieve the jamming themselves if given enough time.
    thanks for your answer Daydream, from the OP and the above, am i right in thinking the bulge lies horizontally and follows along the coronary band?

    this is caused by the wall being too upright?

    am i miles off or going in the right direction?

    sorry, i've never come across this problem before and it's very interesting



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
    Posts
    16,684

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexie View Post
    thanks for your answer Daydream, from the OP and the above, am i right in thinking the bulge lies horizontally and follows along the coronary band?

    this is caused by the wall being too upright?

    am i miles off or going in the right direction?

    sorry, i've never come across this problem before and it's very interesting
    Not so much as being too much upright but rather too much wall there..more a height issue. It may look level from the bottom to the farrier/trimmer but what the jammed quarters tell you is that you have too long of a wall in that area. The coronet band is so elastic that it will push upwards in an attempt to give the horse a level hoof. A trimmer might "relieve" the quarters by lowering that area slightly...not overtrimming there shortening the wall and allowing the coronary band to relax. You would be surprised how "elastic" that coronet band is and how quickly it can change.

    I didn't have time to spend a lot of time looking...Here is a pic of a jammed coronet band. Can you see how much upward strain is on that area?

    I borrowed this pic from Irishcas who posted them on another thread in a shoeing method discussion.

    http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/k...Rightfront.jpg

    This is a normal coronet band. This horse has a clubby LF..it is one that I trim.

    http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ss/WBclub1.jpg

    These coronet bands show lateral imbalance (side to side) as well as jammed quarters on the LF inside of that hoof.

    http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club6.jpg

    Same horse post trim. This is a first trim I did on a client horse. Can you see how different the coronet band appears? You can even see a change in his stance. It's still not perfect but it's a work in process and I did not have a lot of hoof to work with.

    http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club9.jpg

    http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l215/ssluss/Club8.jpg



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    This is a normal coronet band. This horse has a clubby LF..it is one that I trim.

    http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l2...ss/WBclub1.jpg
    Just as a side note - this horse is not even enough in his body. He tends to load the dominant right fore more and the left front not enough, hence the clubby left front.

    The most effective way to get on top of this is for the owner to strengthen the horse's weaker side, so the horse becomes more balanced overall and loads the fronts more evenly.

    Otherwise , as trimmers , we'll only be fighting an uphill battle with this. Either you'll need to trim this hoof more frequently to get the heels down more or be more agressive when you trim and take the heels down enough, but this can potentially cause some soreness due to decontraction, as those hooves often are contracted as well.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
    Posts
    4,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Just as a side note - this horse is not even enough in his body. He tends to load the dominant right fore more and the left front not enough, hence the clubby left front.

    The most effective way to get on top of this is for the owner to strengthen the horse's weaker side, so the horse becomes more balanced overall and loads the fronts more evenly.

    I'm assuming this horse is mature. Are you suggesting that through exercise one can fix a club foot?


    Otherwise , as trimmers , we'll only be fighting an uphill battle with this. Either you'll need to trim this hoof more frequently to get the heels down more or be more agressive when you trim and take the heels down enough, but this can potentially cause some soreness due to decontraction, as those hooves often are contracted as well.


    Are you here suggesting that one correct a club foot in a mature horse?

    l



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 10, 2008
    Location
    Wales, UK
    Posts
    511

    Default

    thanks for those pictures and explanation Daydream, will take some time to look and make sense of it

    much appreciated



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    Dune you are assuming that all upright hooves like the one in the photo is a true club foot. Most are not and simply a result of body imbalances - unfortunately this is still a little known fact among horse professionals, vets included because most do not have a very good understanding of the musculo-skeletal system, its portural habits due to side dominance and how this can affect hoof form and wear.

    Simply observe horses - in pretty much all cases you will find a flatter/wider foot on the dominant front leg and a more upright hoof on the non-dominant side. From what I have observed as a trimmer and massage therapist this is VERY consistent among horses. To verify I also often check the muscle development over the shoulders. The msucles over the dominant shoulder are generally also much more developed than on the non-dominant, weaker side.

    This also corresponds with what canter lead preferrence the horse has - right sided horses usually prefer the left lead canter, as they like to use the stronger right hind for strike off and balance, while left sided horse prefer the opposite.

    The more even the front hooves naturally generally are in size (not made by trimming) , the more balanced side to side a horse usually is too.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2008
    Posts
    247

    Default

    BTR
    Is this the case with ferals?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Nov. 18, 2008
    Posts
    247

    Default

    How do you differentiate a 'true club foot' from a boxy upright one?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by George Myers View Post
    BTR
    Is this the case with ferals?
    I don't work with ferals, so I could not tell you - I just know the front hoof shape differences are common in domestic horses to varrying degrees and some are worse than others and respond to correct trimming and body work that evens the bosy out more.

    Side dominance influences how the front hooves are loaded. Loading makes the hoof expand . The more it is loaded the more it tends to expand.

    Even in humans you can see the developmental difference realted to side dominance - the dominant hand is usually bigger.

    If you want to learn more and see supporting photos , look for the upcoming article on side dominance of the musculo-skeletal system and hoof form in the Horse's Hoof and the Natural Horse Magazine

    How do you differentiate a 'true club foot' from a boxy upright one?
    Have not come across one yet. The ones I have seen were simply left too high in the heels, in other words not taken down enough when trimmed, which seems to be a common problem among some trimmers and farriers.



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb. 8, 2002
    Posts
    4,932

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToRide View Post
    Dune you are assuming that all upright hooves like the one in the photo is a true club foot. Most are not and simply a result of body imbalances - unfortunately this is still a little known fact among horse professionals, vets included because most do not have a very good understanding of the musculo-skeletal system, its portural habits due to side dominance and how this can affect hoof form and wear.

    Simply observe horses - in pretty much all cases you will find a flatter/wider foot on the dominant front leg and a more upright hoof on the non-dominant side. From what I have observed as a trimmer and massage therapist this is VERY consistent among horses. To verify I also often check the muscle development over the shoulders. The msucles over the dominant shoulder are generally also much more developed than on the non-dominant, weaker side.

    This also corresponds with what canter lead preferrence the horse has - right sided horses usually prefer the left lead canter, as they like to use the stronger right hind for strike off and balance, while left sided horse prefer the opposite.

    The more even the front hooves naturally generally are in size (not made by trimming) , the more balanced side to side a horse usually is too.

    I'm not assuming anything, I simply asked a couple of questions and I'm not sure that you answered either one.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    The word "assume" was meant more in a general way, as most people assume this is what a club foot looks like without thinking further about it.

    For example, it is widely "assumed" that a club foot is caused by a contracted tendon, yet tendons cannot contract, only muscles can. Tendons can artificially be shortened due to injury, but muscles usually make up/compensate for this, unless it is very severe. At the other end, tendons can overstretch and lose their elasticity, creating joint instability.

    If a club foot is caused by a tendon that is naturally too short, the horse would be affected at birth and it would probably be very obvious.

    If I pick up a "clubby" looking hoof and I see about 2 inch deep collateral grooves at the back of the heels, it is an indication to me that

    1. The horse perhaps is not heel loading enough for some reason, or in other words wants to toe load ( can be due to weakness at the back of the hoof)
    2. The horse is not loading this hoof enough due to side dominance
    3. the hoof has not been trimmed correctly (taken down enough) during prior trimmings
    4. All of the above
    All the above are VERY common and can cause the flexor muscles to chronically shorten, pretty much like what happens to women who wear high heels all the time. They chronically shorten their calf muscles - the same principle applies to horse's flexor muscles as well.

    True club feet because tendons that are too short are very rare and usually pretty obvious right at birth, unless it happens later in life , thanks to a traumatic injury that shortens the tendon too much.



Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 13
    Last Post: Sep. 5, 2012, 10:30 AM
  2. Coronary band wound
    By CrimsonInClover in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: Nov. 12, 2011, 07:11 PM
  3. Boo-boo on coronary band -- how to treat?
    By FrittSkritt in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Sep. 18, 2010, 06:52 PM
  4. crack into coronary band
    By kiwifruit in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: May. 12, 2010, 12:26 PM
  5. Abcess at Coronary Band
    By qhwpmare in forum Horse Care
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: Aug. 16, 2009, 09:43 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
randomness