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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2008
    Posts
    21

    Default I need advice...when someone won't pay up!? (Long...sorry!)

    None
    Last edited by eventinghopeful; Nov. 25, 2008 at 03:55 PM. Reason: None



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan. 12, 2007
    Posts
    4,227

    Default

    Chalk it up to experience. If she asks you again have her pay her back bill plus a retainer.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2006
    Location
    VA (or MS during the school year)
    Posts
    2,501

    Default

    I'd let it go. I have a feeling that you won't be seeing the check no matter how much you persist, and IMO it's just not worth the frustration of trying to contact her.

    I'm sorry that she didn't pay you though. I know that when in college, every little bit helps (I'll be there next year... yikes!)!
    "People ask me 'will I remember them if I make it'. I ask them 'will you remember me if I don't?'"



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 26, 2001
    Location
    NC
    Posts
    4,389

    Default

    I would NOT let it go. I would email her again. I would mail her a bill every two weeks until my dieing breath.
    I have had people do that to me. This is my business and I deserve the $$ people owe me. I NEVER let it go, even if I don't think I will ever be paid. They are at least going to be reminded that they were unethical, immoral and generally a jerk.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
    Posts
    11,568

    Default

    I wouldn't suggest you let it go. Why should you subsidise this cheapskate's lifestyle ! You did a job. You should be paid for it. I wouldn't however have suggested that you go public on the fact she's a bad debtor. That's done now though so:

    Send another one letter to her and recorded delivery or proof of posting and giving her one week to get the money to you. Tell her you want either cash or cleared funds within a week otherwise you'll have no alternative but to consider further action. Keep it polite but assertive.

    Ensure you make mention of the email that she sent to you whereby she said the cheque was on it's way. (At law, that is in effect her accepting that payment is due and that she's going to pay it).

    If she doesn't pay, then follow it through with a small claims application. Make sure you include all expenses you've incurred trying to obtain the money too.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2008
    Posts
    21

    Default

    None
    Last edited by eventinghopeful; Nov. 25, 2008 at 03:55 PM. Reason: None



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
    Posts
    11,568

    Default

    As you become more involved in the equestrian world, you'll come to appreciate that this sort of behaviour isn't uncommon. For some reason in the horse world it seems to be not the exception. Seems to me that folks want the lifestyle and the appearance of all that goes with it but wants others to subsidise it for them.

    You've a choice whether to allow folks take advantage of you or not. I won't and don't give folks permission to sucker and steal from me! At the end of the day that's what they're doing if they take goods or services and don't pay for them.

    Indeed I was chatting on the phone yesterday evening to a friend who also has a equestrian centre and we were talking about this very thing...... We spent a good 30 minutes bitching about clients who don't pay up.... either bouncing cheques or trying to evade or avoid paying what they own. He was telling me about the nice new t/b x connemara sports horse he's just acquired after training it and because it's owner wouldn't provide a cheque that would clear! I've got 3 horses currently that all were resultant settlement of bad debt. (I hasten to add I NEVER take a horse as settlement unless it's a horse I'm interested in)

    There's a lady operates not too far from me who owes money to nearly every single person who has anything to do with horses. She's 9 horses and to my certain knowledge ran up debt to different people for training, riding lessons, hay, tack, saddle repair, farriery, fencing, feed. All only got their money through the court. Again she was the subject of conversation yesterday because a young lady I've just employed did some riding out and bringing on of a young horse of hers and though promised payment is still waiting for it!!! Seems to me that this woman is just a low life thief! (Aforementioned lady drives a newish Landrover Discovery or a Mercedes!)

    I had someone earlier this year renage on a debt to me and after I gave them chance to pay, I took out a court claim and in addition to my money got awarded all costs plus remedial loss for work she'd booked in advance. After the court judgement she came back with a letter asking if she could just pay the debt and not the extra !!!!! duhhhhh!!!!! As in NO WAY, YOU MISSED YOUR CHANCE!!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec. 31, 2000
    Location
    El Paso, TX
    Posts
    12,638

    Default

    Offer to give her horse some free training again, and teach it to rear in hand. THEN give it back!!!!!



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2008
    Posts
    21

    Default

    None
    Last edited by eventinghopeful; Nov. 25, 2008 at 03:56 PM. Reason: None



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2008
    Posts
    21

    Default

    None
    Last edited by eventinghopeful; Nov. 25, 2008 at 03:56 PM. Reason: None



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2006
    Posts
    2,954

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by eventinghopeful View Post
    Good idea. The mare of her's is just awful to begin with. She's a ditzy, halter-bred Arabian who the owner thinks is just "the cutest, sweetest thing!". I beg to differ as I don't think that a horse scared (and will maul you to get away) of it's own shadow is nice OR cute.
    Fortunately, it's not typical of most halter bred arabians to be that way Sounds like a poorly bred, poorly trained critter either way.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun. 27, 2002
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    5,181

    Default

    Welcome to my world. I just sent four people to collections for non-payment. I REPEATEDLY warned them that if it went to collections, that the collection agency will immediately tack their fee on top of the balance (and I have contracts on file for these folks, which clearly state that THEY are responsible for collections fees should it come to that...they SIGNED off on that!). Anyway, one client is having a meltdown over the fee....guess he didn't take me seriously in the first place. But he'll have to pay it or his credit will get nailed.

    I try to be patient with people, and if they are making even the slightest effort to pay, I will work with them to the ends of the earth. Sometimes you go through a rough patch, and I'll do anything to help if I can. But if you lie to me, ignore my attempts to contact you, or try to bully me to get out of this agreed upon (in writing) expense, I WILL put the smack down on your your delinquent ass. I've got to pay my bills, and so do you.

    (BTW....my business is in the equine industry, so this is horse-related)



  13. #13
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
    Posts
    11,568

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by flypony74 View Post
    I try to be patient with people, and if they are making even the slightest effort to pay, I will work with them to the ends of the earth. Sometimes you go through a rough patch, and I'll do anything to help if I can. But if you lie to me, ignore my attempts to contact you, or try to bully me to get out of this agreed upon (in writing) expense, I WILL put the smack down on your your delinquent ass. I've got to pay my bills, and so do you.
    That is precisely my approach. Like you I've frequently negotiated an installment payment plan

    But for a $30 bill..... I'd be "forget it..... just get it paid!"

    I'm also thinking about advising the OP with regard to rates and training etc.

    I don't know quite how you manage to train, clip, bath and plait a horse good enough for showing in just 2 hours. I also think that $30 for 2 hours work with a horse is too little. When its for work with an ill mannered and untrained horse then it's way too little!
    Last edited by Thomas_1; Nov. 23, 2008 at 06:29 AM.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    http://www.town-and-country.org/
    Posts
    3,000

    Default Otis Brown's wall of shame

    otis is over the bridge many years past but on the wall was a glass front & locking BB, and pinned up was every bad check he ever got.

    otis was not above a bit of sharp trading never misrepresenting a horse but if you did not know what to ask.....
    more hay, less grain



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Nov. 9, 2005
    Location
    uk
    Posts
    15,268

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas_1 View Post
    As you become more involved in the equestrian world, you'll come to appreciate that this sort of behaviour isn't uncommon. For some reason in the horse world it seems to be not the exception. Seems to me that folks want the lifestyle and the appearance of all that goes with it but wants others to subsidise it for them.

    You've a choice whether to allow folks take advantage of you or not. I won't and don't give folks permission to sucker and steal from me! At the end of the day that's what they're doing if they take goods or services and don't pay for them.

    Indeed I was chatting on the phone yesterday evening to a friend who also has a equestrian centre and we were talking about this very thing...... We spent a good 30 minutes bitching about clients who don't pay up.... either bouncing cheques or trying to evade or avoid paying what they own. He was telling me about the nice new t/b x connemara sports horse he's just acquired after training it and because it's owner wouldn't provide a cheque that would clear! I've got 3 horses currently that all were resultant settlement of bad debt. (I hasten to add I NEVER take a horse as settlement unless it's a horse I'm interested in)

    There's a lady operates not too far from me who owes money to nearly every single person who has anything to do with horses. She's 9 horses and to my certain knowledge ran up debt to different people for training, riding lessons, hay, tack, saddle repair, farriery, fencing, feed. All only got their money through the court. Again she was the subject of conversation yesterday because a young lady I've just employed did some riding out and bringing on of a young horse of hers and though promised payment is still waiting for it!!! Seems to me that this woman is just a low life thief! (Aforementioned lady drives a newish Landrover Discovery or a Mercedes!)

    I had someone earlier this year renage on a debt to me and after I gave them chance to pay, I took out a court claim and in addition to my money got awarded all costs plus remedial loss for work she'd booked in advance. After the court judgement she came back
    with a letter asking if she could just pay the debt and not the extra !!!!! duhhhhh!!!!! As in NO WAY, YOU MISSED YOUR CHANCE!!

    right on thomas- hence how i got a couple of my ponies, owners didnt pay me my rent money ,, i am not paying for something thats owed to me

    you worked you did a job and you get paid for said job-- period
    do as thomas 1 says and send the letter recorded so you know shes got it
    ps if the lady cant handle her horses then she shouldnt have them sounds like you did more than needed to and odne a good job doing whatever you did and dont down yourself just becuase your a student making a living doing extra things to support yourself be proud of the fact that your in an educational system whereby your attemping to gain a better future for yourself doing whatever it is you doing haha be dead corny and ironic if you was going be either a vet or lawyer haha haha could add the charge of bad debt on her bill haha be lucky matey and learn from it , maybe have a wrriten contract which is better than a verbal one having half up front and rest when finished sorta thingy and always protect yourself by getting a rider only policy or somesort of insurance ok dokey



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 24, 2008
    Posts
    90

    Default

    The person I sent my mare to for training took cash upfront, no exceptions. I have no problem with this, when she needed to be pulled from training due to a small injury, he gave me the rest of the cash back. But I do see how that could get the client screwed over.

    There's just no anti-screw method of payment in the horse world, is there?



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep. 26, 2008
    Posts
    731

    Default

    $30.00 I'd forget about it however I think your rates are too cheap.

    I'd be paying $50 - $70 for the inhand lesson, $50 braiding, extra for washing and clipping $70. Then show day probably $60.

    All up the bill should be around $200.00.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 23, 2001
    Posts
    2,359

    Default

    I know the feeling . I did a huge favor for someone on this BB a few years back (drove 3+ hours to get something) and she never even paid me for the gas it cost me to do it. I had said I'd do it for just what it cost me, but she offered to pay me $200 for the trouble (which as a college student I didn't turn down!)

    I did call her on it on this BB since the only ways I had to contact her was a phone number she wouldn't answer and was later disconnected, and here. Nothing ever came of it, and I did eventually give up because since she was on the other side of the county and I didn't even have an address it seemed like it would cost me a lot more than the $200 to go after her for it.

    For $30... it's up to you whether to pursue it or not; but I have a feeling you'll never see the money and it will be a lot more frustration than it's worth trying to get it.

    Lesson learned though; if you don't know someone well get payment in advance the first time!

    Edited to add: The sad part is I'm a sucker and I probably would do it again if someone asked nicely enough!



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 2, 2008
    Posts
    18

    Default

    Why not post on the board that you know she frequents asking for advice on drawing up a contract for work that you do? You could mention that you have been burned in the past and that as a 20yr old college student you really need the money that you earn on the side and as much as you enjoy doing it you also know that you need to protect yourself from people who use your expertise and then do not pay. This would get the message to her and also give you advice going forward so it does not happen again.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug. 23, 2006
    Posts
    1,410

    Default

    It sounds as though this woman is definitely taking advantage of you and apparently has a history of taking advantage of others. She does because she for some reason gets away with it. Evidently it's an easy commute from her place to your place. I would email, check read receipt option and call her to ask that you be paid immediately. Give her the sob story that you are a poor college kid struggling to pay for school etc if she says she is changing banks let her know that most 7-11, post offices etc will provide money orders for a nominal fee, and of course you will accept cash. Let her know that you will be in her area on such and such date and will drop by to pick up money. If that doesn't work - I'm sure someone you know or your parents know have a lawyer friend or something who could help write you a nice letter demanding payment. She cannot do anything to you in regards to Harassment - it is not harassment when you call to collect a debt.

    If that doesn't work - you might have to chalk it up to experience. Whatever you do, do not badmouth this person in a public forum where people could find out who she is - your $30 training fee could cost you a lot more.



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