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  1. #1
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    Jun. 28, 2008
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    Default Hunter stallions showing

    How important is it for you to breed to a hunter stallion that's showing?



  2. #2
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    Mar. 22, 2004
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    Not very. If he showed well himself previously, that is a nice bonus, but what's really important is whether he is siring winners. It's like with race sires. If they were a superior runner themselves, they are considered a more likely prospect to be a good sire, but once they start putting foals on the ground all that matters is whether the kids can run. Nobody cares about the stallion's race record anymore once he has proved himself as a sire of runners.

    I think it is very, very difficult for a horse to show and breed in the same season. I would greatly admire a horse that could do that, but I wouldn't hold it against any horse that couldn't. Most owners can't handle both at the same time either, for $$ reasons or scheduling reasons or both. I, like most mare owners, would prefer a stallion not to be showing at the same time I'm wanting to breed to him. Nothing worse than having your mare finally ready to ovluate and being told 'Oh sorry, we can't ship this weekend, he's gone to a show, would you like to use frozen instead?' NO!



  3. #3
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    Jan. 29, 2000
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    I think it is of benefit for the stallion to have either shown successfully in the discipline his get are marketed toward, or actually have several offspring that are successful in said discipline. And by show, I am assuming that you mean at the 'A' level or better, not just B, C and schooling shows.



  4. #4
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    Jun. 2, 2008
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    I definitely think it's a combination of both. When the stallion is younger, pre-green, 1st year green, I think it should be out showing at some high visability shows with a very competent rider. The reality is at this stage you probably are only doing a handful of breedings at 5 & 6 years old. Sit out the spring shows or make sure you are willing to forego a show if a breeding MUST happend but I think performance is as important as what the stallion passed on to his kids. As the stallion gets older, and then obviously has more get of riding age on the ground, his offspring can speak for themselves and his career can shift to strictly breeding. Still, as a breeder, I would want to see what the stallion himself has done in addition to how much of that gets passed to the baby. I also agree with the A show idea. Even if they are more expensive I would say opt to do only a few rather than a TON of small shows were the horse won't be noticed or even if he is the breeding clientele at those shows probably isn't there. At the point of owning a breeding stallion you need to be running him like a business so use your marketing dollars where they will get the best bang.



  5. #5
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    Oct. 3, 2005
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    Maryland
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    It can't be that important for most people, it seems. Look at Zarr, I don't think anyone has ever even seen him jump, let alone be ridden, yet he was all the rage one or two years. Paparazzo showed one time I think at one show in the hunters (did show in Germany though which is good) and to my knowledge Don Alfredo did not either - but, at least he's been proven now through the success of the offspring which is key ...and now it seems people are passing up stallions maybe not proven in the hunters but very much so in other disciplines to breed to stuff that is basically unshown and unproven but with 4 white socks and a blaze... Then when people try to take their stallions out and campaign them, people talk about how they are not good enough/don't jump good enough and so forth, yet they are out showing and many times winning; but then they'll bypass such a horse to breed to one aforementioned... just makes no sense to me? <shrug>

    I think they don't necessarily have to show to become good hunter sires, if one could attract enough of the right people breeding to get the offspring out there and showing themselves, which in turn builds the reputation. But, in order to attract initial breedings, I think the showing is helpful, like in Apiro's case and such. In the end, all that truly matters is what the stallion produces, not him himself. I have seen many stallions I was not crazy about but yet loved the offspring. They say a good stallion is one that will outproduce himself, anyway!



  6. #6
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    Oct. 18, 1999
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    3,220

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    For me, very important. And a big bonus if it can also be shown and ridden by an amateur, not just a pro. The only exception would be if he had loads of kids out there showing, but it takes a long time for a stallion to get to that point.



  7. #7
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    Mar. 23, 2008
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    Millerton, PA
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    Boy, I hope showing is important or else I'm busting my butt to get my stallion in the ring for nothing. LOL My stallion is an off trackie and still needs more mileage so the flat classes are hard for us right now (hoping that will get better with more showing) but we at least make it into the over fence classes. I have only bred my guy once for a keeper foal for me but I know what my guys jump looks like and his personality is to die for. If I were to breed to an outside stallion I would definitely want to see them showing (or at least haveing been in the showring at some point in their life) to see their movement, jump and rideability. Rideability is a BIGGIE in my book. I understand that a lot of the top horses are harder to ride but I want to ride myself (and produce) horses that anyone can ride. My stallion is the sanest horse in my barn. When my non-horsey SO wants to ride he gets on my stallion and my stallion plays school pony. Love that about him.
    '98 Elbader (GB) - JC Thoroughbred Gelding
    '10 Dolce Latte G - Thoroughbred Filly
    '11 Machiatto G - Thoroughbred Colt



  8. #8
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    Oct. 4, 2003
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    Hurdle Mills, NC
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    I think the best/most important thing about showing a stallion is that showing puts him where he needs to be in order to impress those most likely to give him the opportunity to produce genuine show horses: i.e., those who show. After all, it doesn't matter how good a stallion's offspring are if none of their owners takes the steps necessary to build them and their sire a record.
    Last edited by fish; Nov. 8, 2008 at 08:35 PM.



  9. #9
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Keswick, VA
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    Very. I think it's the only way you can really tell if a horse has the soundness, mind, and of course talent that are necessary. If he doesn't have it I'm very sceptical that he will be able to produce it. There's much more to being a show horse than just being able to move and jump; they have to show they can handle the pressure and stand up to the wear and tear both physically and mentally. The stallion should be able to prove that he isn't impossible to get show-ring quiet and careful on a regular basis.
    Fish also of course has an excellent point. If the horse isn't out there showing, your most desirable market for his offspring probably doesn't know who he is, and they aren't going to be buying your foals, breeding to your horse, or getting you the word of mouth advertising that you need.



  10. #10
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    Jan. 15, 2008
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    agree with Fish and Chanda. Very important. Bloodlines are good, but for certain markets, namely mine, bloodlines only get you so far. Since I am performance driven, I try to find stallions who have demonstrated they have what it takes for the discipline they are being marketed for.
    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  11. #11
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    Sep. 3, 2005
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    Northern California
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    It is very important to me. I totally agree with Chanda that showing indicates the stallion's ability to meet the requirements that I want his offspring to meet (jump, temperament, charisma i.e. judges like him, movement). If the sire (and for that matter, the dam) aren't successful in the chosen discipline, I wouldn't expect the offspring to have much of a chance of succeeding. I show my mares and foals and it takes a sizeable investment to get hunter foals to a saleable age. I need the stallion owner to dedicate themselves to making a market for the foals. The first step, IMO, is to get an impressive show record for the sire.



  12. #12
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    May. 4, 2003
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    Canada
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    If the stallion owner is campaigning their stallion, it shows responsibility also - to the mare owners and to his offspring. If they build their reputation for customer service, sincerity and keep up their licencing fees, track the offspring and generally give the whole picture.
    Some johnny-come-lately's get in so deep their mare owners find that the stallion has not been kept up on his licensing fees and then their offspring are not registerable unless the m.o. pays the fees.



  13. #13
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    Jan. 8, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    Very. I think it's the only way you can really tell if a horse has the soundness, mind, and of course talent that are necessary. If he doesn't have it I'm very sceptical that he will be able to produce it. There's much more to being a show horse than just being able to move and jump; they have to show they can handle the pressure and stand up to the wear and tear both physically and mentally. The stallion should be able to prove that he isn't impossible to get show-ring quiet and careful on a regular basis.
    Fish also of course has an excellent point. If the horse isn't out there showing, your most desirable market for his offspring probably doesn't know who he is, and they aren't going to be buying your foals, breeding to your horse, or getting you the word of mouth advertising that you need.
    Very good points! Just out of curiosity and since it's pretty much still on topic...

    You are very knowledgeable and out there amongst the top hunters. Which stallions do you feel fit the bill for your criteria for hunter stallions? Thanks in advance!



  14. #14
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    Apr. 11, 2004
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    North Florida
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    I agree it's important for a stallion to have shown in his disipline. If you're breeding for amateurs, it's even a bigger plus if he's been shown by an amateur......that can really separate not only the talent, but the ridability!!
    www.flyingcolorsfarm.comHome of pinto stallion Claim to Fame and his homozygous son, Counterclaim. Friend us on Facebook!https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Fl...04678589573428



  15. #15
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    I don't think it is that important at the end of the day.

    What I look for is the ability to pass on their good traits to the mare. Just because they have shown it does not mean that they can do this.



  16. #16
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equino View Post
    Very good points! Just out of curiosity and since it's pretty much still on topic...

    You are very knowledgeable and out there amongst the top hunters. Which stallions do you feel fit the bill for your criteria for hunter stallions? Thanks in advance!
    I have lot of personal pet peeves and tastes . I also haven't seen some of the west coast stallions that are out there competing and doing well. I just think any horse that is out there showing and holding his own is ahead, in my criteria anyway, of those that had no career. I've seen a lot of horses bred perpetuating the line horse blood that repeatedly goes nowhere after the hunter breeding ring, and I think that's sad. It's wonderful to have a beautiful line horse, but I don't think that should be the ultimate goal. I think you're more likely to get a horse to do the job you want if you breed horses that do that job.



  17. #17
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    "Her life was okay. Sometimes she wished she were sleeping with the right man instead of with her dog, but she never felt she was sleeping with the wrong dog."



    www.dontlookbackfarm.com



  18. #18

    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    I have lot of personal pet peeves and tastes . I also haven't seen some of the west coast stallions that are out there competing and doing well. I just think any horse that is out there showing and holding his own is ahead, in my criteria anyway, of those that had no career. I've seen a lot of horses bred perpetuating the line horse blood that repeatedly goes nowhere after the hunter breeding ring, and I think that's sad. It's wonderful to have a beautiful line horse, but I don't think that should be the ultimate goal. I think you're more likely to get a horse to do the job you want if you breed horses that do that job.
    I agree!
    ~ Bill Rube ~
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