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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov. 7, 2007
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    14

    Default Dangerous Horse?

    Okay, so I got this gorgeous warmblood...he's 6, around 16'2, and pretty solid, as warmbloods go anyways.

    But when we try to put him in the cross-ties, MOST of the time he loses his mind...as in just totally freaks out, pulls back and rears....but sometimes he is OK if you stand there and get mad at him when he moves....He is the same way with lungeing, and going in his stall after he works....has anyone ever heard of something like this before??

    H.N
    RiptonScotch



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun. 4, 2002
    Location
    Suffolk, VA
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    16,684

    Default

    Has he been like this since you got him or did it develop afterwards? What is he getting to eat?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct. 6, 2004
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    NASCAR HELL
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    Default

    first guess is ULCERS
    The rider casts his heart over the fence,
    the horse jumps in pursuit of it.

    –Hans-Heinrich Isenbart



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
    Location
    down the road from bar.ka
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    31,807

    Default

    Look to the obvious first.

    Had he EVER been in the crossties before you got him? Many imports have never seen them before and neither have some homebreds because not everybody uses them. And has anybody given him treats in those crossties to the point he will not stand still unless he gets them? Seen that too much and they get to be monsters unless you stand right there and give them treats.

    Where was he living and how much turn out now versus then? What kind of handling and by whom? Did they let him get pushy?

    The fact you say he is rude when lunging and going into the stall but will quiet in the crossties if you stand there....you may just have a rude bully of a teenager.

    Yeah, ulcers and all that. Maybe. But sometimes the horse just has learned it is bigger and does not have to do anything. Treating for a medical condition is not going to cure a behavioral issue due to bad manners and insufficient (or non exsistent) ground training.

    Think about this and STOP tolerating any bolting into the stall and acting like a jerk on the lunge. Try a chain over his nose and a little ground work on manners before he hurts you. That dragging you into the stall will scrape you off on the doorframe if you are not careful and it MUST stop before you get smoooshed.

    Never lunge "naked", put him in sidereins or something to control him. It is not playtime. You are in charge, not him.

    Give him the benefit of the doubt on the crossties, some just hate them and he may never have seen them. But the rest of the stuff sounds like a big young horse who likes to get his own way.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    May. 25, 2003
    Location
    Orlean, Virginia
    Posts
    2,971

    Arrow jmho

    To me it sounds like he's never been trained to be cross tied! You have to TRAIN them to be tied that way. Try just tying him the regular way. If he does similar then TRAIN him to be tied regularly first. A LOT of horses aren't good tie-ers and need a lot of supervision. I've used those tie-blocker rings to tie my draft crosses successfully. And don't punish him; train him.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct. 19, 2005
    Posts
    7,320

    Default

    I also suspect diet - what does he eat?



  7. #7
    Join Date
    May. 21, 2008
    Location
    Sonoma County, California
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    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by findeight View Post
    Look to the obvious first.

    Never lunge "naked", put him in sidereins or something to control him. It is not playtime. You are in charge, not him.
    I skip crossties with quite a few horse. Some just don't do well in them. Make sure you use breakaway equipment to minimize damage to him if you tie him.

    I strongly disagree with the above statement. Putting sidereins on a horse who has a history of "freaking out" is a recipie for disaster. My horse flipped over backward while a trainer was lungeing him in sidereins and nearly severed his tongue.

    I'd be looking at ulcers, too. Whenever you have a horse who has a "switch" that seems to get flipped, they should be considered.

    Can you try more turnout with this horse? 24/7 pasture might do him wonders if he can tolerate it!



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 29, 2008
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    3,059

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Watermark Farm View Post
    I skip crossties with quite a few horse. Some just don't do well in them. Make sure you use breakaway equipment to minimize damage to him if you tie him.

    I strongly disagree with the above statement. Putting sidereins on a horse who has a history of "freaking out" is a recipie for disaster. My horse flipped over backward while a trainer was lungeing him in sidereins and nearly severed his tongue.

    Can you try more turnout with this horse? 24/7 pasture might do him wonders if he can tolerate it!
    Ditto to this. Sounds like he's never been crosstied, lunged, or maybe even in a stall? Sidereins sure wouldn't help his nervousness. I'd put him in the round pen loose, w/halter on, and just watch him for a while. If he's not bonkers, go in with him and lead him around. I could go all into a lunge lesson right now but I have to go. You just need to start from the bottom up. One thing at a time. Once he knows how to go in a circle, add a lunge line. then start adding other contraptions;cavesson or bit, sidereins, etc. You'll just blow his little mind if you throw all of that at him at once.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Minnesota
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    16,891

    Default

    I've known a few horses that just don't do well in cross ties. So we don't cross tie them.

    It sounds like your horse has some other claustrophobia issues as well. I would get him comfortable doing some of the other "confining" things before even thinking about cross ties.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct. 13, 2008
    Location
    MidWest
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    164

    Default

    Ditto the training to be cross-tied, etc.

    I don't think a horse that freaks out when confined in an unknown way is dangerous...just scared and for the most part, doesn't understand what's going on.

    Teach him not to be scared and to behave appropriately on the ground. Get someone to help you if you don't know how. If you don't teach this huge animal manners now, he WILL become dangerous later.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2006
    Location
    Saco, Maine
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    4,727

    Default

    Warm Blood? Pretty solid? Freaks out in stall, xties? What's he like in the trailer? What's he eat? I'm guessing EPSM. Please don't "get mad at him". EPSM is a very real, very painful condition which can cause ALL SORTS of behavior 'problems' but can also be easily managed with education, time and patience. Go to www.ruralheritage.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug. 11, 2008
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    MD
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    3,816

    Default

    Could he just have some basic 'head restraint' issues? Do you lunge him in side reins?

    I had a mare once who just couldn't tolerate having her head restrained for very long. When trailering, we'd usually arrive to find she'd broken her halter, she'd cross tie for a little bit, but needed very close supervision, had the occasional bridling issue, and forget side reins... it was always a backflip. She would even pull back and rear if someone on the ground took hold of her head if there was a rider on her back.

    Of course that doesn't explain the rushing into the stall issue... that sounds like basic ground manners. You need to train him to lead at your shoulder and pay attention to your body language. I had let my TB's get a little pushy and new trainer was not amused. She fixed it very first lesson with a dressage whip and now they both behave.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug. 9, 2007
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    9,099

    Default

    Don't know about the other issues, but if your horse is imported, he might have never been crosstied.
    If imported, try tying him by one cross tie and gradually getting the other on him over a period of months.
    My wb does not llike crossties, will tolerate them but feels trapped, cause for first 4 years he lived in europe and was not cross tied.

    And remember this: Never let a warmblood know he is bigger than you are.

    I ready that in a european wb book, AFTER I let mine know he is bigger than I am.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov. 29, 2007
    Location
    IL
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    1,190

    Default

    This horse sounds like he has serious claustrophobia issues. He's afraid of confinement and small spaces--cross-ties, doorways, even being kept on a small circle--these are all scary to him. He's not inherently dangerous, but he's afraid, and his reactions ARE dangerous.

    Skip the crossties. Teach him to tie with a single tie or ground-tying. Do lots of groundwork--see if someone can explain Parelli's "squeeze game" to you--or PM me and I can explain it. This will help desensitize him to small spaces.

    And PLEASE don't use sidereins etc on him--these will only "trap" his head and exacerbate the problem. If he can't tolerate crossties, why would he be able to tolerate sidereins??

    Also, consider leading him with a lunge line or a looooong lead rope while you're working on this stuff. If he tends to bolt or drag you--a long lead will allow him to "get away" from you without dragging you with him, and you'll still be able to hang on. Most leads are only 6'-8' and they don't allow the horse to "drift", so to speak.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    31,807

    Default

    I kind of read this as the horse being fairly well broke to ride and a recent aquisition. Still have not had the question of

    Of course you should not put any side reins on him of he is not that far along. But if you cannot control him on the lunge, you have a problem that is going to get worse every time he repeats the behavior. Are we even sure he KNOWS how to lunge here?

    But, honestly, the "freaking out" could go along with other behavior as just bad manners and, IME, most of the time it's just a pushy young horse with no manners that has gotten away with scaring whoever is trying to handle him and likes it that way.

    And, please, I don't care if he is claustrophopic or not, you need to solve that dragging you into the stall. You can very easily break a shoulder or get pinned aginst the wall regardless of the why he may be doing it.

    OP, how long have you had this horse? Still would like to know where he was before, how much turn out and who was handling him before OP before deciding if it is a medical problem or he just has no manners because nobody has taught him any.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2003
    Posts
    1,886

    Default

    Have you asked the person who sold him to you? Seems to me that's step one. It may be that he had manners but is investigating whether they apply with you. Mine did. It had nothing to do with feeding, turnout, etc. It had to do with being an adolescent, cocky horse.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    May. 4, 2003
    Location
    Canada
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    14,520

    Default

    ..or he may have had a bad experience in which case he may never be reliable l00% of the time.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 16, 2007
    Posts
    1,123

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RiptonScotch88 View Post
    Okay, so I got this gorgeous warmblood...he's 6, around 16'2, and pretty solid, as warmbloods go anyways.

    But when we try to put him in the cross-ties, MOST of the time he loses his mind...as in just totally freaks out, pulls back and rears....but sometimes he is OK if you stand there and get mad at him when he moves....He is the same way with lungeing, and going in his stall after he works....has anyone ever heard of something like this before??

    H.N
    The stall thing. Never let him go into or out of the stall recklessly. All it takes is him crashing into the doorway one time and he could have a "hip down" forever. Get control of him. Work with him on only taking a step when you do. It sounds like fear is overtaking him in doorways. It just kills me to see people turn a horse loose to crash into a stall because they "cant" control him enough to lead him in without getting trampled. If he is that bad try backing him out of or into the stall. Keep working with him. Eventually stop him 1/2way in or out and let him stand. Give him a scratch. Get him to relax.


    As far as the cross ties.......he "freaks out, pulls back and rears" - then why in the world are you putting him in cross ties ?

    This sounds like a train wreck to me. You are going to let this horse injure himself if you dont get control.



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