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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default Pain Management

    I did a search on here, but just curious what people use (that works) for pain management. I have two boys, both with serious pain issues (fractured coffin bone that keeps flaring up and severe arthritis in the other, along with a torn cranial cruciate ligament and soft tissue injuries).

    I've done bute, causes Gus to crib like there's no tomorrow (think it's uclers, treating now with omeprazole and it's helping) but does seem to help, slightly, with Gringo's fractured coffin bone. Made both boys more comfortable, just caused the GI upsets.

    Tried Devil's Claw plus Yucca (by Uckele) didn't seem to help either at all. Tried plain Yucca Saponin (also by Uckele) worked for maintance, before either had major flare ups. Haven't used in months because both boys have more pain/issues then just plain Yucca can handle.

    I've done the Surpass route. Did help reduce the swelling the first time around. May start it back up again, least for Gus - but don't want something that'll reaggravate his GI tract. Never tried it on Gringo, but can't exactly reach the coffin bone...

    Tried Legend. Works, when Gus is just "off". Doesn't work at all when he's been injured. Adequan doesn't work, period, for my guys (but then I haven't tried Gringo).

    Joint injections helped both boys, but I can't afford $200 per horse for injections. Just can't. The injection for Gringo only lasted about 3 weeks, once he got over the "ouchiness" of the injection (was off for about a week, then sound for 3 weeks). Gus has too much swelling to properly inject, would need to go the "big" hospital and have the injections done via ultrasound (done when he originally tore his CCL).

    So, what works? Has anyone had success with BL Pellets? See: http://www.smartpakequine.com/produc...ctClassid=4195. The solution will be hard to dispense here in the next month as overnight lows are already getting in the 30s. Can't really have the solution brought into BOs' houses (both boys at separate facilities), hence using the pellets versus solution. How about Zerobute? See: http://www.smartpakequine.com/produc...ductClassid=20.

    I'm currently using ReLeaf on Gus, see: http://www.smartpakequine.com/produc...ctClassid=5587. Seems to help, slightly but again, it's a liquid and can only use it until we start freezing, really bad (ugh). Gringo's on bute for a couple weeks, and I'm using up the last of the DC+Y on him too.

    Suggestions? Fire away, please.

    FWIW: Both are on 1/2 dose of Smartpak Senior, 1 scoop Animed Pure Glucosamine, and 1/2 dose of SmartMSM for pain/joint maintance as it is. If anyone needs exact amounts of glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/HA/etc let me know as I do have the numbers saved.
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,261



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    The only thing is though, how in the world to I tell my vet I want to try "dog" pain meds on my horse? I worked in the vet field for 5 years and I know that Previcox does work, really well on most dogs. I've heard of the equine equilivant, Equioxx, but I can't afford that to save my life (at $10/day, no way).

    ETA: What's the dosage, per 1000 lbs? Is it 1/4 of a 227mg tablet/56.75 mg daily?
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,261

    Default

    I said "Hey Ed...can I get a script for Previcox? It's the same stuff as Equioxx for a 20th the cost" and then he wrote me the script.

    Chances are your vet has already had someone ask. If he hasn't, just have the dosing numbers at the ready to show him that a dose for a 25 lb dog = a dose for a 1200 lbs horse. (Dogs are doses at 5.0 mg/kg, horses are dosed at 0.1 mg/kg)



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    Thanks again. One quick question, do you know if one can find the dosage (0.1mg/kg) in a vet manual/reputable source? Not that you aren't reputable enough, but I don't want to look dumb when I ask my vet for a script for Preicox and say I found the info on CoTH. She thinks I'm a but nuts as it is .
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 31, 2007
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    509

    Default

    I have a horse with ringbone who does well most of the time on just an HA joint supplement, but when he flares up I give him bute for a few days. I do not keep him on Bute all the time, and this regimen seems to work well for us for now. However, some day he may need to be on something more for maintenance, and I've been exploring our options. I've used the herbal stuff in the past with limited success (BL Solution, DC Plus, etc.) but since he's IR, I'm staying away from yucca.

    Here's what I plan to try in the future, if I need to:

    1. Aspirin
    2. Duralactin
    3. Pain-X from Uckele


    Just some thoughts for you. Good luck with your boys.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by appychik View Post
    Thanks again. One quick question, do you know if one can find the dosage (0.1mg/kg) in a vet manual/reputable source? Not that you aren't reputable enough, but I don't want to look dumb when I ask my vet for a script for Preicox and say I found the info on CoTH. She thinks I'm a but nuts as it is .
    Just print off the package inserts:

    Previcox

    Equioxx

    Dosing instructions can be found near the beginning of both.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    You are absolutely THE BEST, Simkie! Thanks again.

    Just so I have my numbers right, Gus weights 1100 lbs, which equals 500kg. So, would his dosage be 50mg of Previcox daily? (1100/2.2= 500 * 0.1=50 mg) or am I way off base?
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Druid Acres View Post
    I have a horse with ringbone who does well most of the time on just an HA joint supplement, but when he flares up I give him bute for a few days. I do not keep him on Bute all the time, and this regimen seems to work well for us for now. However, some day he may need to be on something more for maintenance, and I've been exploring our options. I've used the herbal stuff in the past with limited success (BL Solution, DC Plus, etc.) but since he's IR, I'm staying away from yucca.

    Here's what I plan to try in the future, if I need to:

    1. Aspirin
    2. Duralactin
    3. Pain-X from Uckele


    Just some thoughts for you. Good luck with your boys.

    Thanks. I do worry about IR in both boys a bit too, as both have some "issues" with things... but thank you for the suggestions. I'll have to look into the Pain-X from Uckele (as I love Uckele's products, in general, even if they don't work well for my boys).

    Well, I've got my email into the vet. Hope she doesn't think I'm a nut!

    ETA: I forgot, but I've already tried Aspirin too. Seems to help a bit with Gus's ERU... but nothing else.
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb. 9, 2000
    Location
    Southern NJ
    Posts
    1,623

    Default

    I have two different vets - vet #1 prescribed Previcox for 21 year old grade 3 lame (hock) retiree. I was giving him bute to maintain comfort but he was having tummy issues. Vet #1 said - "here, try this". It is a miracle with this horse. After the loading dose (1 57 mg pill 2 x day for 3 days) we took him back to 1 a day. Now he is on 1 pill a day followed by 1/2 pill the next day. We tried him on a half a pill daily but it was not enough.

    Vet #2 comes out a few weeks ago and about fell over. She could NOT believe the difference and noted that he improved almost 2 grades of lameness. She gave us the go ahead for lite trail riding (which we were doing anyway). This horse runs around bucking now.

    Believe me, I tried EVERYTHING on this horse, including hock injections. IMO for your chronic cases, this stuff is great.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    WOW. Thanks CAH. I'm really hoping that this may be really help both boys. Gringo probably never will be sound enough to ride, as he's lame in the brain (i.e. crazy). But, anything to make Gus happier, sounder and pain-freer.
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr. 14, 2001
    Location
    Fort Collins, CO
    Posts
    16,261

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by appychik View Post
    You are absolutely THE BEST, Simkie! Thanks again.

    Just so I have my numbers right, Gus weights 1100 lbs, which equals 500kg. So, would his dosage be 50mg of Previcox daily? (1100/2.2= 500 * 0.1=50 mg) or am I way off base?
    Yep yep, that's correct.

    I purchase the 227 mg tabs and break them into four pieces. My horse is closer to 1300 lbs.

    You could probably buy the 57 mg tabs and shave a little bit off, or talk to your vet about if it would be okay to just dose him at 57 mg per day. Even if you're shaving a little bit off, it's cheap enough that it doesn't really matter. I pay about $0.50 a dose buying the 227 mg tabs and breaking them into four pieces (and that's buying 10 tabs at a time. My cost per dose would be even less if I bought the bigger bottles!)



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2008
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    543

    Default

    Start with 4 days of Equioxx and then switch to the Previcox 57mg 1xday. I would discuss this with your veterinarian before starting anything. Both of these require a prescription. Good luck and hope you find something that helps.



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2007
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,842

    Default

    Thanks guys. I'm just waiting now to hear back from the vet. I'm so glad my math skills are that good that I got the formula correct the first time around . Thanks again for the suggestions. I'm really wanting to try Previcox... otherwise, if it doesn't work, my two older dogs could benefit from it .

    ETA: Sheesh, vet was quick today. She's actually heard of that too (but is sneaky cause she still promotes the Equioxx). Said she'll fax the script anywhere, just let her know where. Thanks again Simkie for the suggestion. Now just waiting to see what my small animal vet charges for 30 doses as they don't keep it in stock.
    Last edited by appychik; Oct. 22, 2008 at 02:52 PM.
    Proud owner of Gus & Gringo.
    See G2's blog
    Photos



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