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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Amen MistyBlue.

    See JD, no argument to be had here. You're trying to start one by implying that the condition of that horse is a generic "this is the fault of any and all trimmers, therefore trimmers are bad."

    It's really tiresome.

    Where did i say genetic??? Circular Logic is abound with you !



  2. #22
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    Oh God...visions of Bo. Most specifically in his hind end. We really do need a barf smilie because that made me sick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    Well I don't doubt there are some crappy barefoot trimmers but I see work like that all the time around here from farriers. Like I said, I did one today! The horse was so out of balance he could not stand up right...as I trimmed each foot, he stood squarely on it. It was absolutely shocking. You'll notice I did not post pics and scream "a farrier did this!!!" and try to start a major fight again.

    Edited: I wanted to add too that the entire time I trimmed this horse...as I did each foot....his owners stood there staring at amazement as his entire posture changed. They said they'd never seen him stand up square before. His feet were horribly out of balance, flat as a pancake and the walls looked about like the horse on the vid. This one was not laminitic though as the one in the video looks to be. The horse I did today cannot keep shoes on either...no wonder as chopped up as his walls were and very thin. I booted him also with strict instructions to ride him in them and keep him off rocks.

    All this thread is designed to do is start yet another farriers versus trimmer battle and sadly I see work as bad as that daily in my area as I work behind farriers. A bad trim is a bad trim and shoes won't fix a bad trim.
    DDB, what did you trim??? On a foot like what is shown here, what can you cut away that will make an improvement, even with boots? Sole pressure would probably kill him.
    RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
    5/5/84-7/12/08



  3. #23
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    He came to just pick a fight. Nothing any of us says, unless we agree that all trimmers are inherently bad, will make him happy.

    Troll, troll, troll....



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    He came to just pick a fight. Nothing any of us says, unless we agree that all trimmers are inherently bad, will make him happy.

    Troll, troll, troll....
    Troll, thank you for the accolade. Rather a Troll than a Zealot!!!

    You, of the "Lunatic Fringe" can get over a farrier calling out a trimmer; that's all.

    You want more from a Ramey progeny?



  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    there's is no nit-picking- now the so called shoe is on the other foot!!!! Barefooters can call out bad farriery but farriers can't call out bad trimmers????
    Nobody ever said bad trimmers couldn't be called out. You have apparently forgotten, or conveniently never read, any of the post by trimmers on this board calling out some of their experiences with poor trimming. DDB has done it herself, several times, as well as calling out the poor farrier work she's cleaned up.

    You also started this thread with the very in-your-face insinuation that the issue is caused by poor trimmers, and only poor trimmers.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  6. #26
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    What MistyBlue said. Thanks, MistyBlue. And futhermore, I'd bet that most horse people would agree. Peronally, I would have said that some horses, depending on the individual, can compete at high levels without shoes.

    But the point is, all this finger-pointing and name calling is ridiculous. AND VERY TIRESOME!! There are bad trimmers. There are bad shoers. Blanket statements are generally worthless, as well as inflamatory, because every horse is an individual. If everybody kept that in mind then the horses would be the winners.



  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Where did i say genetic??? Circular Logic is abound with you !

    Well now, it really is apparent you read what you want to, hear what you want to. Please re-read - generic, not genetic.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Appassionato View Post
    Oh God...visions of Bo. Most specifically in his hind end. We really do need a barf smilie because that made me sick.



    DDB, what did you trim??? On a foot like what is shown here, what can you cut away that will make an improvement, even with boots? Sole pressure would probably kill him.
    No, the horse I did today was NOT laminitic like the one in the video. You'd be shocked how well those horses (even acutely laminitic) ones do in the pads/boots also. That sinker I mentioned walked off sound as soon her boots and pads went on and she was so lame she could barely stand for the trim.

    The horse I did today got a good roll on his walls, I removed all the broken "hangnail" chips of wall, and I adjusted the lateral balance which was truly awful and viola! he stood up happily. He loved his boots and pads and his owners were thrilled. We will trim him in 3 weeks and not allow his feet to split and crack again. He will probably grow in a good strong wall and be fine barefoot until they ask him for higher performance. I already gave the speech that he might need shoes again one day but for now, let's fix his feet and get him comfortable again and reevaluate in the future.

    He was barefoot from the previous farrier who gave up when she could not keep shoes on him. That was the only "fix" she knew and it failed. He walked off landing flat and sound also without the boots so he was not lame after my trim but greatly improved as he walked in landing toe first and shuffling. Amazing what a good trim can do to help a horse's comfort.

    I'm not a barefoot only person. I am fine with properly applied shoes used over a good trim for a good reason. I am not fine with 90% of the crappy work I see every day.



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    AHHH, an air of common sense concerning the individaul horse
    Hardly. There's something else ailing that horse besides no shoes, given that he is that sore on soft footing. Unless his owners rode him like hell and he has mechanical founder, this may not even have anything to do with the barefoot trim.

    He looks laminitic; in that case the last thing he needs is shoes.



  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    He came to just pick a fight. Nothing any of us says, unless we agree that all trimmers are inherently bad, will make him happy.

    Troll, troll, troll....
    Jaye brought me a horse of his that he knew could stay barefoot. And that if he ever needed shoes, he'll need to go back home to Jaye.
    RIP Bo, the real Appassionato
    5/5/84-7/12/08



  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Troll, thank you for the accolade. Rather a Troll than a Zealot!!!

    You, of the "Lunatic Fringe" can get over a farrier calling out a trimmer; that's all.

    You want more from a Ramey progeny?
    Hey Tom! What "lunatic fringe" are you referring to? The one that nails pieces of metal to horses' hooves?



  12. #32
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    Daydream Believer......The horse I did today got a good roll on his walls, I removed all the broken "hangnail" chips of wall, and I adjusted the lateral balance which was truly awful and viola! he stood up happily. He loved his boots and pads and his owners were thrilled. .....
    How about barefoot with NO appliances???? Would they be thrilled then, the horse, the owners?







    I'm not a barefoot only person. I am fine with properly applied shoes used over a good trim for a good reason. I am not fine with 90% of the crappy work I see every day.

    Now we are getting on the same page here; 90% of the trimmers work that I see(3-4 times a month) is "crappy and horses require shoeing!!!!!



  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayarabpony View Post
    Hardly. There's something else ailing that horse besides no shoes, given that he is that sore on soft footing. Unless his owners rode him like hell and he has mechanical founder, this may not even have anything to do with the barefoot trim.

    He looks laminitic; in that case the last thing he needs is shoes.


    There are 3 of them!!!! I just posted one vid of the 3 vids I have. Seems to me there is an operator problem with rasp, nippers and knife



  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Troll, thank you for the accolade. Rather a Troll than a Zealot!!!

    You, of the "Lunatic Fringe" can get over a farrier calling out a trimmer; that's all.

    You want more from a Ramey progeny?
    I'm not a troll...I didn't come here to start a fight. You did. That pretty much is the definition of a troll.

    BTW...why didn't you post any pics of your finished work for us to admire? I'm curious what you did to this horse.

    I'm not a "lunatic fringe"....I'm fine with shoes applied properly over a good trim. I have yet to see much of that anymore. I just don't shoe but I can trim properly and therapeutically and I often help horses that traditional farriers can't.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Now we are getting on the same page here; 90% of the trimmers work that I see(3-4 times a month) is "crappy and horses require shoeing!!!!!
    At least they are no worse than farriers! Good trimmers AND good farriers are both hard to find. I don't see what this has to do with barefoot vs. shod.



  16. #36
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    I'd like to know the definition of "lunatic fringe." Is that what you call someone who disagrees with you? Pretty weak if you ask me!

    $10 it was JD/Tom who originally trimmed the horse in the video. He is the type who would do a crap trim job on purpose, as a way of "proving" that horses "need" shoes.



  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by canticle View Post
    At least they are no worse than farriers! Good trimmers AND good farriers are both hard to find. I don't see what this has to do with barefoot vs. shod.
    Nothing, just that trimmers are just as bad as farriers; good work is good work. Bad work is bad work. But if a farrier brings bad trimming to the forefront it might be considered "picking a fight".



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    How about barefoot with NO appliances???? Would they be thrilled then, the horse, the owners?
    If you read what I wrote earlier, you'd see that he was sound barefoot and improved dramatically with trim. I recommended boots for him for work only. Better yet his owners can take them OFF when he doesn't need them (unlike nailed on shoes) and they will work on his thin torn up walls where shoes would not work. BTW...they tried glue ons and that did not work either. Like I said...I often get called in to help where traditional farriers fail.... It's a shame the farrier just did not trim properly to begin with as I doubt he'll need shoes for light work once he grows some good solid wall down.



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    Nothing, just that trimmers are just as bad as farriers; good work is good work. Bad work is bad work. But if a farrier brings bad trimming to the forefront it might be considered "picking a fight".
    If a farrier had done this work, would it be considered less bad? Because that is what you are implying.

    No one is arguing that you need to search long and hard for a good trimmer, just as you would a farrier. Why do you have a problem with horses being barefoot?



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    I'm not a troll...I didn't come here to start a fight. You did. That pretty much is the definition of a troll.

    BTW...why didn't you post any pics of your finished work for us to admire? I'm curious what you did to this horse.

    I'm not a "lunatic fringe"....I'm fine with shoes applied properly over a good trim. I have yet to see much of that anymore. I just don't shoe but I can trim properly and therapeutically and I often help horses that traditional farriers can't.

    I didn't call you a 'Troll", you did it to me. I applauded the "accolade".

    You can't have it both ways; defending bad trimming and then straddling the fence on both farriery and trimming.



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