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  1. #1
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    Default Barefoot - Enough of it!!

    Here is a vid of a retiree that has been in "Barefoot Transition" for 90 days; the horse was trimmed 10-16-08. The third trim. The horse lives on loamy, soft bermuda grass turnout; i.e. putting green type footing:


    http://s150.photobucket.com/player.s...fs=1&os=1&ap=1


    here is a couple more vids for your viewing pleasure and Amazement, note outlines of P3 in which I could feel the coffin bones:

    http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s...oot1008027.flv

    http://s150.photobucket.com/albums/s...oot1008028.flv



    The is an oath and or creedo~~"Do no Harm!""" You barefoot people need to stop and STOP NOW!!!!



  2. #2
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    Default

    whoa.

    90 days and that is what is going on.

    whoa.



  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    whoa.

    90 days and that is what is going on.

    whoa.

    yep, 9o days!!!!!!



  4. #4
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    Default

    Looks just like a horse I trimmed today and now work on that a local farrier screwed up. So what is your point? He is obviously laminitic. Did anyone look for a cause for his problem?

    If that were my client's horse, I'd have him in boots with pads and I promise you he would not be limping around uncomfortable like that. I have one client horse with 10 degrees rotation and sinker that we've gotten stable and built sole under P3 and have a solid connection growing down. I have xrays to prove it. The horse is wearing boots with pads and is comfortable, walking/trotting sound and needs no bute. She will probably be able to come out of the boots soon too.

    For your edification also, I've seen some farrier shod foundered horses with God-knows-at-what-cost shoes on that were lamer than that one as well. I also saw a horse shod for two years by our local area's (supposedly) finest farrier that ended up in a hole recently after some of the worst trimming with shoes slapped on that I've ever seen. This horse had heels 4 inches high that the farrier made no effort to lower and was so mechanically rotated he was unable to grow a connection to P3. He foundered behind and was finally put down. Absolutely sickening and I suppose you'd think he did a wonderful job since he shod it despite the absolutely terrible trim under those shoes.



  5. #5
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    Default

    I do think JD, as DDB is pointing out, it is not "BAREFOOT" that is the bad thing-but bad barefoot.

    It is only a matter of time, as we start seeing more and more weekend warrior trimmers out there, that we start seeing more crappy trims.

    Just like farriers, attorneys, husbands and about anything else you can think of...it is a numbers game. You see enough and most end up being bad. BUT when you find a good one, you strike gold.

    I am curious as heck though-what IS the background of the trimmer? What the heck did he/she do on the 16th for the trim?



  6. #6
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    Default

    Well I don't doubt there are some crappy barefoot trimmers but I see work like that all the time around here from farriers. Like I said, I did one today! The horse was so out of balance he could not stand up right...as I trimmed each foot, he stood squarely on it. It was absolutely shocking. You'll notice I did not post pics and scream "a farrier did this!!!" and try to start a major fight again.

    Edited: I wanted to add too that the entire time I trimmed this horse...as I did each foot....his owners stood there staring at amazement as his entire posture changed. They said they'd never seen him stand up square before. His feet were horribly out of balance, flat as a pancake and the walls looked about like the horse on the vid. This one was not laminitic though as the one in the video looks to be. The horse I did today cannot keep shoes on either...no wonder as chopped up as his walls were and very thin. I booted him also with strict instructions to ride him in them and keep him off rocks.

    All this thread is designed to do is start yet another farriers versus trimmer battle and sadly I see work as bad as that daily in my area as I work behind farriers. A bad trim is a bad trim and shoes won't fix a bad trim.



  7. #7
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    Default

    I agree with DDB.

    OP, are you saying you trimmed the horse on 10/16 or the horse had been trimmed on 10/16 before you saw him? Because the foot on the vid had not been recently trimmed.



  8. #8
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    Default

    Shod feet - enough of it!!

    http://www.unshod.org/pfbc/pfmedresearch.htm

    Flat foot was most common in children who wore closed-toe shoes, less common in those who wore sandals or slippers, and least in the unshod.


    The high concentration of flat foot among six-year-old children who wore shoes as compared with those who did not, implies that the critical age for development of the arch is before six years.



    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMH View Post
    I do think JD, as DDB is pointing out, it is not "BAREFOOT" that is the bad thing-but bad barefoot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream Believer View Post
    All this thread is designed to do is start yet another farriers versus trimmer battle and sadly I see work as bad as that daily in my area as I work behind farriers. A bad trim is a bad trim and shoes won't fix a bad trim.
    Agree, agree, agree.

    What IS your point JD?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Shod feet - enough of it!!

    http://www.unshod.org/pfbc/pfmedresearch.htm






    [/color]




  11. #11
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    Daydream Believer-Looks just like a horse I trimmed today and now work on that a local farrier screwed up. So what is your point? He is obviously laminitic. Did anyone look for a cause for his problem?

    The problem is the trimmer. Sounds kinda fimiluar doesn't it!!! It was the trimmer, no, it was the farrier. This was one of 3, that I had shod, on and off for 15 years with no problems. 90 days under a trimmer, almost preforated soles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





    If that were my client's horse, I'd have him in boots with pads and I promise you he would not be limping around uncomfortable like that. I have one client horse with 10 degrees rotation and sinker that we've gotten stable and built sole under P3 and have a solid connection growing down. I have xrays to prove it. The horse is wearing boots with pads and is comfortable, walking/trotting sound and needs no bute. She will probably be able to come out of the boots soon too.

    Got your panties or boxers in a wad now since a farrier has to come in behind a certified "Natural Trimmer"? How does it feel there????






    For your edification also, I've seen some farrier shod foundered horses with God-knows-at-what-cost shoes on that were lamer than that one as well. I also saw a horse shod for two years by our local area's (supposedly) finest farrier that ended up in a hole recently after some of the worst trimming with shoes slapped on that I've ever seen. This horse had heels 4 inches high that the farrier made no effort to lower and was so mechanically rotated he was unable to grow a connection to P3. He foundered behind and was finally put down. Absolutely sickening and I suppose you'd think he did a wonderful job since he shod it despite the absolutely terrible trim under those shoes.


    HMMMMMMMM????? You mean there are BAD NATURAL TRIMMERS also, not just farriers?



  12. #12
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    Oh wait, I do get JD's point. Crappy trimming makes for crappy feet makes for a sore horse.

    Guess what - there IS NO argument there.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Agree, agree, agree.

    What IS your point JD?

    3 horses are suffering unnecessarily!!!!



  14. #14
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    Default

    Not all horses are able to be comfortable barefoot...despite even the world's best barefoot professional working on them. Has nothing to do with barefoot trimmers...has everything to do with owners. If the owner is naive and willing enough to be taken in by some of the faster talking "all or nothing" and "all shoes are torture" barefoot advocates and they keep a horse THAT uncomfy for that long...then the owner is as foolish as the barefoot person who is telling the owner it takes more than a week for a horse to go from ouchy to sound when removing shoes. (pathologies aside)
    I don't understand any barefoot trimmer who's a pro allowing that to happen. The truly good ones who care more about each horse rather than their own philosophy on shoes would tell the owner, "He's not a good candidate for being barefoot. Put shoes back on him." because the truly good ones KNOW it's impossible and foolish to insist all horses can go barefoot no matter what. Horses have rarely (if ever) bred for hoof health and even generations of feral or wild horses don't all come out with perfect bare feet. Those ones just don't survive to adulthood though.
    A horse going shod to bare should bever be sore for 90 days. Or 60 days. Or 30 days. More than a couple weeks and the horse just probably isn't a good one to be barefoot. has nothing to do with Mother Nature making all horse hooves designed to be barefoot since Mother Nature hasn't selectively bred most horses in...ohhh....hundreds of years.
    now with a good barefoot trim and proper upkeep and some help through a short transition I do think more horses could go barefoot than there are now. But I also don't believe shoes are inherently evil or that they compromise the hoof/longevity of a horse. I do think shoes are imperative in certain disciplines to both be competitive and more importantly to keep the horse comfy and safe.
    but more than a SHORT transition should never be needed for an otherwise healthy hoof.
    The horse in that video...if he's more comfy in shoes than someone needs to talk to that owner and tell them to stop torturing her horse.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Oh wait, I do get JD's point. Crappy trimming makes for crappy feet makes for a sore horse.

    Guess what - there IS NO argument there.



    RIIIIGGGGHHHHTTTT! Trimmers hate to be corrected!!!!



  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    3 horses are suffering unnecessarily!!!!
    Yeah, but what really is your point? If any one of us so chose, and had permission of the owners, those of us who prefer-barefoof-but-don't-mind-shoes could get video is poorly trimmed and shod feet and make your same argument.

    You're nit-picking an argument here. Why?
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  17. #17
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    MistyBlue.......The horse in that video...if he's more comfy in shoes than someone needs to talk to that owner and tell them to stop torturing her horse.


    AHHH, an air of common sense concerning the individaul horse



  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by J.D. View Post
    RIIIIGGGGHHHHTTTT! Trimmers hate to be corrected!!!!
    Again, you are making no sense. Nobody here would agree that having a horse look that sore 90 days after pulling shoes is a good thing. See, no argument!

    DDB even gave a protocol of what she would do, has done, has seen it work, because she, a *gasp* trimmer, doesn't see any point in seeing a horse suffer. See, no argument
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Has nothing to do with barefoot trimmers...has everything to do with owners.
    Amen MistyBlue.

    See JD, no argument to be had here. You're trying to start one by implying that the condition of that horse is a generic "this is the fault of any and all trimmers, therefore trimmers are bad."

    It's really tiresome.
    ______________________________
    The CoTH CYA - please consult w/your veterinarian under any and all circumstances. - ET



  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JB View Post
    Yeah, but what really is your point? If any one of us so chose, and had permission of the owners, those of us who prefer-barefoof-but-don't-mind-shoes could get video is poorly trimmed and shod feet and make your same argument.

    You're nit-picking an argument here. Why?

    there's is no nit-picking- now the so called shoe is on the other foot!!!! Barefooters can call out bad farriery but farriers can't call out bad trimmers????



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