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  1. #41
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    "when I walked into the back barn that housed the thoroughbreds [edit]. While the facility is gorgeous and the stalls were clean, the horses do not look well! I went on the PATHA website and looked at some before pictures and many of them had lost tons of weight! Their top lines were gone and many were very sunken inand very ribby!"

    All too often TBs will lose weight and muscle when they come off the track, for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, many of them have been receiving steroids or other drugs- they come off cold turkey and crash. It doesnt matter what you feed them or how much! Secondly, their whole physiology is changing. They no longer are kept in a stall for 23 hours and fed 20++ qts of grain. They are dead fit and need to let down. Very few TBs put weight on from the moment they leave the track. Most look worse before they look better- that is part of the game when these guys come off the track.

    Please, let's keep working towards a solution, and let each program do what they can to provide futures for our OTTBs. We are all working towards the same goal, and hopefully all learning from each other on how to do things better or more efficiently. If you have questions, it is perhaps better to call the person who can answer you directly, rather than throw around "suspicions" in a public forum. If you want to feed the fire, post away. If you truly want answers, go to the source.

    Just my 2¢

    Bev Strauss
    MidAtlantic Horse Rescue
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 08:12 AM. Reason: quote



  2. #42
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    "BeverlyAStrauss;3553851 If you have questions, it is perhaps better to call the person who can answer you directly, rather than throw around "suspicions" in a public forum. If you want to feed the fire, post away. If you truly want answers, go to the source.

    Just my 2¢

    Bev Strauss
    MidAtlantic Horse RescueB]
    "


    Everyone is entitled to their opinion (that's what the first amendment is for) but these are not "suspicions" that are being thrown around!

    I have been involved in thoroughbred breeding and owning for over 25 years and have seen first hand what happens to horses being let down when they come straight off the track! I have also seen the effects of epo and other steroids as horses were detoxing! Words cannot describe the pain I feel for them!

    I went with my friend to Reindancer knowing that they had taken on the horses from the track! While I agree with you that some horses, when they come off the track lose weight immediately due to drugs, steroids, nerves- whatever, many of these horses were from Philadelphia Park who actually have a ban against using steroid effective April 1st.

    But riddle me this batman! There was a horse; they called Big Mac that was at the barn! He is an ex-racehorse and was being used as a lead pony at the track. My friend informed me that he was huge (weight wise) when he came to them, but slowly started losing weight! When I saw him, he too like the other thoroughbreds, was all sunken in, had no topline and you could see his ribs! My friend told me that she was so upset seeing the decline of these horse's conditions week after week when her daughter would come to lessons, she pulled her daughter from the program and has gone to another facility!

    So, this horse, Big Mac, #1- Was not being let down #2- Was not on steroids or any other drug #3- was not a nervous type horse. [edit]

    So Bev Strauss, while you may be right that some horses decline when they come off the track, I will not dispute that, on this particular occasion, however, you are dead wrong!

    [edit] I can only tell my story and make people aware of what I saw first handed!!
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 08:24 AM. Reason: allegations



  3. #43
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    Hello Take A Deep Breath,
    I know Bev well and I'm sure she'll check back and respond to your concerns.

    My concern regarding this thread, and perhaps this is some of what Bev is feeling, is that Turning for Home is a new ambitious program, still in the learning phase of understanding exactly what they need to do to oversee their horses' care as well as fully understand the limits of what they can aspire to do. Somewhat aggressive and public questioning tends to create more questions than answers, and doubts linger long after the thread disappears. Contacting Barbara privately to discuss these questions, as she requested, is more appropriate at this point and I'm sure would help both the horses and the program greatly.

    Observations like yours are very important for any rescue to know about. I'm glad you were so observant and I'm sure BL would appreciate it if you called her immediately should you see something like this in the future. If you have a camera, take pictures. Taking action like this will only help her make more informed decisions as she tries to manage many many horses and also encourage her to develop a system for monitoring the horses under her umbrella if she doesn't already have one.

    [rigoletto]: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 08:27 AM. Reason: personal commentary



  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post

    I went with my friend to Reindancer knowing that they had taken on the horses from the track! While I agree with you that some horses, when they come off the track lose weight immediately due to drugs, steroids, nerves- whatever, many of these horses were from Philadelphia Park who actually have a ban against using steroid effective April 1st.
    The effects of steroid crash are longer term than you are guessing. I have a horse pulled from the track at the end of last October.. see the picture taken April 26, 2008. 6 months AFTER leaving the track and goodness knows how long after his last steroid injection.

    October 20-something, 2007: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11321645@N03/2908135000/

    April 26, 2008: http://www.flickr.com/photos/11321645@N03/2765346161/

    Unless you have the blood tests on these horses, then yes, these are "suspicions." Fact is - horses have lost weight. Suspicion is - lack of care.

    I don't know much about the program, but I should hope it has enough oversight to ensure the horses are getting adequate care.



  5. #45
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    Default Why the negativity?

    OK, so I arrived at this party kind of late. And I don't know any of the players here. After reading through this thread, a few things jump out at me:

    Philly has started a retirement program for TB? Good for them! This is new territory for most places and there are a lot of obstacles to navigate through. I imagine that there are also going to be changes implemented in the programs as issues arise and are dealt with. The need for homes for these horses is staggering. It can very quickly outstrip resources of any outfit taking them. If I was in charge of admissions, I would be pretty cautious about how many head I take in and what the chances of rehoming would be. That's a daunting task.

    That being said, why is everyone sniping at BarbaraL? Is there some back story I haven't heard yet? If so what is it? Without that, this sounds like a lynching party starting up. I would truly like to know if these programs are being mismanaged or run by Celita types.

    Posters are saying that the two horses were turned down by the very program in effect for them. Barbara states that the 2 horses in question were never presented the program. I don't know what the truth of the matter is, but it sure sounds like these 2 horses are not at NH now because of this program.

    They have 60 head in the program now, seems to me they ARE using the $10 fees for the purpose for which they were intended. So why the bitching about salary, transparency, etc? Is the program truly in place or not? So the wording changed on the site...don't you think a new program is going to go through changes and growing pains?

    It was asked when the zero tolerance policy was placed in effect. Why does that matter? It's in effect now isn't it?

    The overwhelming sentiment that I am gathering from this thread is negative and borderline anger towards them. Would you rather they disband? If so then why?

    You know, I am all for exposing the bad organizations in this world. There have been a few of them that have come to light on this forum. But....I also wholeheartedly support the many fine folks who are out there working to MAKE a difference in the horse world, and I really don't like seeing them get attacked in public like this.

    I would REALLY hate to see people who are working to make positive changes get soured on it and walk away. There are too few of them out there to risk driving the good ones away. I sure as hell don't have time to give up my job to work at it full time....do you?



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
    First off, to the individual who stated that not everybody runs to the internet for information- I have to inform you that almost 72% of Americans use the internet for one thing or another. I know in my experience with buying and selling horses almost 95% of the horses I have sold have been done so off of internet ads- not by word of mouth!
    Well! I am the only one at my barn that goes online at least once a week! I know, it's amazing! Many people that I talk to daily don't go online whenever they want to find something! Just today I was telling someone about ac4h and she doesn't even have a computer! I didn't have any phone numbers so we were out of luck! She's looking for a beginner horse!

    Did you call the AC about the horses at Reindancer! If they were so bad then that's what you should do!

    BTW, no one can take a deep breathe, but everyone can take a deep breath! Writing with an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence makes me think you're 14 years old! This isn't Myspace!!11!



  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaltagor View Post
    Well! I am the only one at my barn that goes online at least once a week! I know, it's amazing! Many people that I talk to daily don't go online whenever they want to find something! Just today I was telling someone about ac4h and she doesn't even have a computer! I didn't have any phone numbers so we were out of luck! She's looking for a beginner horse!

    Did you call the AC about the horses at Reindancer! If they were so bad then that's what you should do!

    BTW, no one can take a deep breathe, but everyone can take a deep breath! Writing with an exclamation mark at the end of every sentence makes me think you're 14 years old! This isn't Myspace!!11!
    OUCH... I must have struck a nerve with you- that wasn't my intention, but the truth must hurt!

    Sorry for stating FACTS!!!!! (Yes exclamation points!) Trust me, my friend already had informed me that some people there were very tempted to contact the authorities, but never did! Instead, they moved their horses out of there.

    And thanks for the advice on myspace! I do not have an account, but because of your suggestion I will have to look into establishing one!!!!!!!!



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by rigoletto View Post
    Now in the first paragraph above you state that the trainer doesn't have to do so?
    Oh, and you and I both know that Suffolk's zero tolerance policy was started prior to Philly's.
    I'm not affiliated with the program, so could be mistaken, but I think you misread the first paragraph. I took it to mean that trainers are not required to participate, but that no horse can join the program unless its owner or trainer comes in and signs him up.

    I also took the "same day" zero tolerance policy to mean the same day they discovered the trainer in question sent those two horses to auction, not the same day as Suffolk implemented its policy.

    Take_a_deep_breathe, while I agree that a good website is an excellent idea for programs, especially of this nature, I don't think they should have waited to start until they could find a good web developer to volunteer and get all of their material up! Give them some time to get things together.
    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.



  9. #49
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    Oct. 26, 2003
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    I was the one who went to Reindancer a few weeks ago. In fact, I wrote a story about the Next Dance program that is in this month's edition of Horse News. Take a Deep Breath, if you live in Allentown you likely know who I am, and I may know you. I have owned TBs all of my life and am very familiar with them. The horses I saw last month looked fine, for horses that had recently come off the track. None of them looked like skin and bones. Go ahead and call animal control officer Mary Klink. I'm sure she will agree with me, unless something drastic has happened in the past month. People are going in and out of that barn all the time, and they hold horse shows there. There is nothing being hidden.



  10. #50
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    I've also contacted the director of the Reindancer program and alerted her to this thread, and am hoping she will reply to this thread and answer any questions.



  11. #51
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    Apr. 14, 2006
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    Virginia
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEPowell View Post
    Hello Take A Deep Breath,
    I know Bev well and I'm sure she'll check back and respond to your concerns.

    My concern regarding this thread, and perhaps this is some of what Bev is feeling, is that Turning for Home is a new ambitious program, still in the learning phase of understanding exactly what they need to do to oversee their horses' care as well as fully understand the limits of what they can aspire to do. Somewhat aggressive and public questioning tends to create more questions than answers, and doubts linger long after the thread disappears. Contacting Barbara privately to discuss these questions, as she requested, is more appropriate at this point and I'm sure would help both the horses and the program greatly.

    Observations like yours are very important for any rescue to know about. I'm glad you were so observant and I'm sure BL would appreciate it if you called her immediately should you see something like this in the future. If you have a camera, take pictures. Taking action like this will only help her make more informed decisions as she tries to manage many many horses and also encourage her to develop a system for monitoring the horses under her umbrella if she doesn't already have one.

    Diana Baker: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]
    Hello Suzanne Powell. Nice to hear from you, though not in such an angry manner. It's been years several years since I've heard from you so I can't imagine what I've done to upset you so.

    Yes I was on the board of the TRF and of course I know that there is not a single rescue that can save every TB in need. You're preaching to the choir, but that's not what this thread is about. This thread was originally about two horses from Philadelphia Park - horses that need some help. It wasn't even about Turning for Home if I read the initial post correctly. [edit]

    Were some of my comments on this thread a bit to harsh? To some I'm sure they seem so and if I've offended anyone I apologize for that. I should know better than to post on this forum or any other (something I rarely do anyway) when I'm stressed, upset or frustrated. This situation had me feeling all of the above at various times so maybe my comments should have been kept to myself. But when questions aren't answered when asked directly and privately, one's patience begins to wear thin.



    Diana
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 08:30 AM. Reason: personal commentary



  12. #52
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    OK, contacted Pam.
    She wrote:
    This is a hate campaign that started with a boarder that was asked to leave our facility. I thought that she had left on pretty good terms but obviously that is not the case. She is good friends with some “track” people and the rest is history.

    Anyone who has been to the farm knows what the real story is. The more I try to stop the rumors, the more these people seem to become energized.

    They do nothing to help these horses and yet are the biggest critics.
    Two weeks ago Barbara came out and took pictures of all of our horses. These pictures are on display outside of her office. I would suggest that anyone with concerns take a look. A picture is worth a thousand words.



  13. #53
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    OK... if this is directed at me I have to tell you somethings...

    1) Yes I live in Allentown, NJ and some of you probably do know who I am and our paths have probably crossed at one time or another at horse shows or the such.

    2) My friend WAS NOT a boarder (Her daughter was a lesson student) nor is she or I friends with anyone at Philadelphia Park. (Monmouth yes.... Philly NO)

    3) I know what I saw and will stand by what I posted. I have nothing to prove or gain by stating my comments. My postings are only in the best interest of the horses. The people I met the day I was there were friendly and nice and the facility is gorgeous and clean, I will give them that, but no matter how you cut the mustard- the horses were THIN!

    I HAVE SAID MY PEACE AND AM DONE WITH THIS FORUM SO NO NEED TO FRET ABOUT HEARING FROM ME ANYMORE!!!

    IT'S NOT WORTH IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by take_a_deep_breathe View Post
    My postings are only in the best interest of the horses.
    Yes, you surely have changed some horse's lives posting your inanity in cyberspace. Oy vey.



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by SEPowell View Post
    Diana Baker: Have you not yet learned that your aggressive manner does not help any tb rescue? You were on the board of TRF, have you already forgotten that not even the richest tb rescue in the country can save all the thoroughbreds all the time? [edit]
    [edit] Diana Baker is a great champion of horse welfare, and has been for many years. She was formerly an esteemed member of the Board of Directors, Thoroughbred Retirement Foundation, among her other numerous associations. I met Diana in this capacity and was immediately impressed with her dedication and unwavering passion to manage race horse transition from track to safe home. She helped me. She helped the horses I rescued. This impressive woman is heads above the rest in terms of sheer dedication to the welfare of horses in general, and of horses at risk of slaughter in particular. Thoroughbreds could not find a better friend. [edit]
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 12:17 PM. Reason: previously deleted material and response



  16. #56
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    Amen

    I know Diana and the previous poster's comments were completely out of line.

    I also have known lolalola for many years. She is a wonderful woman and a very experienced horse person.

    These are two of the very good people the world needs more of, that do everything they possible could to help horses and horse rescue. Trust me when I say very few people have gone to the lengths that these woman have to help horses.

    Change doesn't come easily. There seems to be some reasonable questions in regards to Philly's new program. I hope that Barbara can clarify.
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Oct. 6, 2008 at 12:18 PM. Reason: restored info



  17. #57
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    We hope it goes without saying that all those posting to, or for that matter reading, this thread have the best interest of the horses involved at heart.

    That being said, please avoid the personal commentary directed at each other. You're welcome to discuss this situation/program with the objective of clearing up any misunderstandings or gaining more information.

    Though it can be a valuable source of feedback re: the horse industry, this forum is not provided as a means to make allegations or pot-shots against other groups or individuals. You're welcome to make observations and commentary, but please gear it towards maintaining a productive atmosphere where information can be shared vs. battle lines being drawn.

    In cases where there are urgent questions requiring the specific attention of the individuals involved, the best tactic is likely to contact those individuals directly.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  18. #58
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    Since making my only post on this thread I have communicated with Diana Baker and clarified a misunderstanding on my part regarding backlash I experienced at New Holland after an HBO special on horse slaughter was placed on the internet. Diana Baker was not at all involved in the production of that special and therefore had no part what so ever in the resulting backlash I experienced at New Holland. I privately apologized for this misunderstanding to Diana and now I'm apologizing to her publicly. I want to also say that after I contacted Diana I received an extraordinary letter from her which gave me insight into her ability to look at a difficult situation, reach an understanding of it and move forward with a sense of collaboration and greater purpose. She is dedicated to horse rescue and more than willing to discuss related issues and find solutions.



  19. #59
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    From someone who has is extraordinary helpful for Diana's assistance, thank you for posting this clarification.

    Now, back to topic. Barbara L. or anyone else from the Philly Park program is going to answer these reasonable questions? Has anyone emailed her and received a response?



  20. #60
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    Default UPDATES!!

    Any updates on this Thread???



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