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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2000
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    Default Proposed changes to amateur rules

    There are 3 proposed changes
    This one
    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/081-08.pdf
    Has to do with applying amateur standards to juniors. But I don't think it will fly as a general rule change (might as a change for a specific discipline). It is an individual proposl.

    This one
    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/475-08.pdf
    changes the rule about sponsorship, and about reimbursement of expenses

    This one
    http://www.usef.org/documents/ruleChanges/476-08.pdf
    restructures the entire rule, and includes the changes about sponsorship and reimbursement.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  2. #2
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    Sep. 15, 2006
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    Default I can make the rules a lot easier to understand, if they would let me....

    If you work in any way (trainer, sales, bookkeeper, veterinarian (small animal only - excluded) You are a PROFESSIONAL.. If you work OUTSIDE the equine field of service you can be an Ammy...
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
    http://bluemoongrafixva.webs.com



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 19, 1999
    Location
    Averill Park NY and Citra Fl
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    5,575

    Default

    The junior one is kind of like applying the saddlebred rules to the arabs....similar yet wholly different. Juniors are not amateurs (duh!) so applying the amateur rule to them is , well like comparing apples to oranges. Anyone who "hires" a junior and believes they are getting the experience and expertise of a real, seasoned professional is only fooling themselves! Let the kid advertise as a pro she/he is only making themselves look ridiculous. The other two seem really do-able. I know so many "amateurs" that advertise "sales" and conduct themselves as "amateurs" while selling and riding other peoples horses. That might tighten that up!
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.



  4. #4
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    Default

    The first one is a little broad for a specific situation of an older Junior advertising themselves as a Professional (despite not being considered old enough to obtain liability insurance or sign a contract unless they are in that never never land of actual age versus show age). Imagine that problem will age out pretty soon.

    That one could backfire on all the young working sutudents that do get a little money or free lessons in exchange for work...or on a 14 year old I give $20 bucks to for riding my horse in the Kids Hunters. May not be fair they become pros at the turn of a calender but sure not fair to penalize a ton of younger teens working off lessons that cannot get a "real" job like the over 18s can.

    The second is, I think, a clarification on allowing a picture to be used and receiving something for that???

    The third makes my eyes bleed. Almost done here for today, maybe somebody can put up the short version and I can look tomorrow.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 19, 1999
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    Averill Park NY and Citra Fl
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    Default

    The third one is actually rather short if you skip the cross outs! It is pretty succinct...I like it.
    The thing about smart people, is they look like crazy people, to dumb people.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 7, 2000
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    The burbs of Chicago
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    Default

    1. Below are the activities which would deem someone a professional:
    e. Accepts prize money in equitation or showmanship classes. Prize money may be accepted by amateur riders in Dressage.

    So why can't you get money for eq classes? They never offer it but I just am wondering how this would make someone a professional if they won a eq class say against other amys and it offered prize money?
    I want to be like Barbie because that bitch has everything!



  7. #7
    Janet is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Smiles View Post
    1. Below are the activities which would deem someone a professional:
    e. Accepts prize money in equitation or showmanship classes. Prize money may be accepted by amateur riders in Dressage.

    So why can't you get money for eq classes? They never offer it but I just am wondering how this would make someone a professional if they won a eq class say against other amys and it offered prize money?
    That one has been on the books forever, and is the REASON eq classes never offer prize money.

    If you won prize mony for an eq class, the rider would be "being paid to ride". When the horse wins prize money, it goes to the owner. Even if the owner is also the rider, the money is won for owning, not for riding.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 31, 2004
    Posts
    1,394

    Default Jr riders are not pros

    there are plenty of Jr riders that ride better then some pros. Many turn pro at 18. I do not feel it's wrong for them to except a gift of sorts for riding someones horse in a division in which the owner can not. That is how these young people grow as riders. Catch riding is very important to the junior industry and these riders work very hard. Some horses are difficult, days are hot and long and they still ride many horses. Don't call them pros and punish them. Let them ride and let them get something out of it if an owner wants to give. I know some that catch ride and groom. They are paid to groom. It's a very gray area with USEF if grooms are considered pros for those over 18. I have spoken to many stewards about this. It's a rough one becuase many of these people are just looking to make some summer $$ bathing horses, cleaning stalls and tacking. They don't ride year round and do nothing else pro like. There are larger issues out there that need discussing.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb. 25, 2000
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    181

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Janet View Post
    That one has been on the books forever, and is the REASON eq classes never offer prize money.

    If you won prize mony for an eq class, the rider would be "being paid to ride". When the horse wins prize money, it goes to the owner. Even if the owner is also the rider, the money is won for owning, not for riding.
    Where do rider bonus' fall? The horse show series up here has a "leading rider series" for Open Jumper, Leading Jr/AO Rider, Leading Child/Adult Rider etc. What makes it OK for the riders to win the Leading Rider bonus money but not money in an equitation class?

    Let me clarify that the bonus is not "Leading Horse" it is specifically "Leading Rider" offering a substantial prize. If you are an amateur and you win this are you not allowed to accept the money?



  10. #10
    Janet is offline Schoolmaster Premium Member
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by meganp View Post
    Where do rider bonus' fall? The horse show series up here has a "leading rider series" for Open Jumper, Leading Jr/AO Rider, Leading Child/Adult Rider etc. What makes it OK for the riders to win the Leading Rider bonus money but not money in an equitation class?

    Let me clarify that the bonus is not "Leading Horse" it is specifically "Leading Rider" offering a substantial prize. If you are an amateur and you win this are you not allowed to accept the money?
    I would definitely call the USEF and ask about that.
    Janet

    chief feeder and mucker for Music, Spy, Belle and Tiara. Someone else is now feeding and mucking for Chief and Brain (both foxhunting now).



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Default

    I don't see anything wrong with a vet being an amateur.

    I know two vets off the top of my head who are perfectly legitimate amateurs. They ride only their own horses, and they don't have any advantage from being vets, other than they don't have to pay whopping vet bills on their horses.

    If anything, they probably have less time to ride and practice than most people with regular jobs!



  12. #12

    Default

    As it reads, one can be a veterinarian AND an amateur. The amateur status is lost if the veterinarian also gave instruction or trained horses for someone other than their family.

    What difference does it make when the sanctioning body doesn't enforce the rules?
    POYBGP, member in good standing.



  13. #13
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens View Post
    As it reads, one can be a veterinarian AND an amateur. The amateur status is lost if the veterinarian also gave instruction or trained horses for someone other than their family.
    I know. I was referring to Grandprixjump's post earlier in the thread.



  14. #14
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    Aug. 30, 2001
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    Purcellville, VA
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    Default

    I will write against it. Accepting reimbursement of expenses should not be removed. They should fine violators, not change the rule.



  15. #15
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    Jul. 29, 2005
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    Los Angeles, CA
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    Default

    man if junior riders couldn't except money i would have been REALLY poor. because my parents paid for the horses i didn't get an allowance but did walk-around lessons and taught camp as a teenager for spending money for myself.
    "For by the love that guides my pen, I know great horses live again."



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Oct. 28, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MHM View Post
    I don't see anything wrong with a vet being an amateur.

    I know two vets off the top of my head who are perfectly legitimate amateurs. They ride only their own horses, and they don't have any advantage from being vets, other than they don't have to pay whopping vet bills on their horses.

    If anything, they probably have less time to ride and practice than most people with regular jobs!
    My thoughts exactly. What vet has the time to ride/train horses on the side?
    Seems silly to me...why wouldn't farriers have to operate under the same rule? All of the vets I know personally do 1-2 horse shows per year (many years they don't have time for any) on their personal horses for the fun of it...they're lucky to get to ride more then twice a week especially during the summer (talking equine here) and even then it's usually a quick trail ride before it gets to be pitch black.



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan. 20, 2008
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    144

    Default Rule changes/clairity

    I have only read it as post here; however, I like the changes. This being said.....it is fact that those who are actively violating the ammy rules will continue to do so. None of the changes in the rules will change the members!!
    Thank you, Janet, for allowing us the access to read these changes so easily and quickly.



  18. #18

    Default

    I wish that USEF, like other organizations would give a line by line comparison showing exactly where the changes are.
    POYBGP, member in good standing.



  19. #19
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    Sep. 15, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by harryjohnson Aefvue Senior Gardens View Post
    What difference does it make when the sanctioning body doesn't enforce the rules?
    They do enforce the rules, when it effects a NOBODY, but let an AMMY that is VERY RICH, and doing GP now have sponsors and announce them, they allow them to backpedal and get away with it.If that had been Lucky Lucy from Chi that had 1 GP horse and NO CHANCE of making the Olympic team they would have been sat down, suspended for 6 months, and then their Ammy status taken away for at least a year...
    " iCOTH " window/bumper stickers.
    http://bluemoongrafixva.webs.com



  20. #20
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    Sep. 24, 2001
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by grandprixjump View Post
    They do enforce the rules, when it effects a NOBODY, but let an AMMY that is VERY RICH, and doing GP now have sponsors and announce them, they allow them to backpedal and get away with it.If that had been Lucky Lucy from Chi that had 1 GP horse and NO CHANCE of making the Olympic team they would have been sat down, suspended for 6 months, and then their Ammy status taken away for at least a year...
    Maybe you should check your facts....the rider you are refering too is no longer an amateur. USEF did do something. Told her to give up the amateur status or they would take it away. I think it was very fair of them to give her the option given that situation. Either way the outcome was the same.



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