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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr. 15, 2008
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    Default Stallion carrier for HERDA but still breeding - WWYD?

    It has recently come to my attention that a local stallion owner is continuing to breed a stallion that is a known carrier for HERDA. From my understanding this stallion has now produced at least to foals with the disease that had to be destroyed. The stallions HERDA status is not listed on the ads advertising his services so I am pretty sure that the mare owners are not aware. This stallion is a registered quarter horse. I am thinking of contacting the AQHA but I am not sure if they would do anything about it. This owner is not very well liked in the community and has burned many bridges in the horse community. This is not a person that I could approach about the situation. WWYD?



  2. #2
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Default

    Does AQHA even ban breeding of HERDA carriers? Last I heard they did not, and many known carriers were breeding, and people were breeding to them without caring.

    Just like HYPP, only with HYPP it's worse because some people think it's awesome



  3. #3

    Default

    The AQHA can't do anything theres no rule against it though I hope soon there will be preventing breeding two carriers. If the mare owners don't care or don't bother testing their mares thats up to them. Both sire and dam have to be a carrier to produce a HERDA foal and then its 25% chance. I do think though that the stallion owner should make it known the stud is a carrier but it wouldn't stop me from breeding a non carrier to him. His not being liked by someone else wouldn't play a part in it regardless.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  4. #4
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    Apr. 15, 2008
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    Does AQHA even ban breeding of HERDA carriers? Last I heard they did not, and many known carriers were breeding, and people were breeding to them without caring.

    Just like HYPP, only with HYPP it's worse because some people think it's awesome

    This is what I was afraid of!! It blows my mind that anyone would knowingly continue to breed a horse being a KNOWN carrier for such a horrific disease and worse that the AQHA would condone it



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2006
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    2,954

    Default

    I'm not familiar with the inheritance pattern of HERDA - if carriers only have one copy of the gene and do not display the disease themselves, then there should be no problem breeding to them - just never breed another HERDA carrier to him. You say "from my understanding" that he's produced two affected foals - also, maybe he produced these before the test was available, and the mare owner is now turning away other carriers? Also, just because it's not advertised doesn't mean they don't let people know in private - this was the case with SCID in Arabians for a long time - lots of people did not advertise they had a SCID carrier but they would let mare owners know privately. Unless you know 100% that's true...then no. You should also find out if AQHA has some prohibition on someone not notifying mare owners of their status - though you may have to be a member to file a protest.



  6. #6

    Default

    Why would you not breed a carrier as long as its not to another carrier? Thats like saying you'd never have a HYPP N/N horse because of the disease.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2008
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    1,767

    Default

    I would say all you could do is tell your friends to make sure their mares aren't carriers. There's nowhere to report it...but if you have proof, you can add the stallion's name to "the list" floating around the Yahoo Newsgroups on HERDA.

    With QH stallions, it is buyer-beware...a mare owner with a linebred Poco Bueno mare ought to know the HERDA status of their mare AND the status of the linebred PB stallion they select. The owner of the stallion doesn't have to ADVERTISE the ERDA status, but if they are LYING about it, that's a different story.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2006
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    Central Mississippi
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    Default

    I am not up on all of the HERDA genetics, but I would think, given the nature of the problem, that it would be sensible to breed it OUT rather than keep the genetic mutation going by continuing to breed to known carriers. No?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug. 31, 2008
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    18

    Default

    In a perfect world, anyone breeding to this stallion would ask to see results of the test and then not breed to him. Unfortunately there's not much you can do other than to be a constant pest to AQHA, APHA and all the rest of the breed registries to ban registration of carriers.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 1999
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    Concord, California, USA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dazednconfused View Post
    I'm not familiar with the inheritance pattern of HERDA - if carriers only have one copy of the gene and do not display the disease themselves, then there should be no problem breeding to them - just never breed another HERDA carrier to him. You say "from my understanding" that he's produced two affected foals - also, maybe he produced these before the test was available, and the mare owner is now turning away other carriers? Also, just because it's not advertised doesn't mean they don't let people know in private - this was the case with SCID in Arabians for a long time - lots of people did not advertise they had a SCID carrier but they would let mare owners know privately. Unless you know 100% that's true...then no. You should also find out if AQHA has some prohibition on someone not notifying mare owners of their status - though you may have to be a member to file a protest.

    I believe HERDA is recessive, unlike HYPP which is dominant.



  11. #11
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    Aug. 25, 2005
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    Exclamation

    Quote Originally Posted by MySparrow View Post
    I am not up on all of the HERDA genetics, but I would think, given the nature of the problem, that it would be sensible to breed it OUT rather than keep the genetic mutation going by continuing to breed to known carriers. No?
    County: Take note!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Some riders change their horse, they change their saddle, they change their teacher; they never change themselves.



  12. #12
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    Jan. 9, 2006
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    the land of sky-blue waters
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy M View Post
    I believe HERDA is recessive, unlike HYPP which is dominant.
    Exactly. It's NOT just like breeding an HYPP carrier; the offspring have NO chance of manifesting the disease if the mare isn't a carrier. Personally, I think that the stallion owner should be discussing HERDA status with people who choose to breed their mares to his stallion, but the stallion's carrier status alone should not determine whether or not he should ever breed.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
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    147

    Default

    As long as you don't breed to a carrier to a carrier, it is ok. There is a $30 test HERDA available.You should have you QH tested if it has Poco Bueno in the pedigree.
    $30 vs hell!
    The AQHA is facing flak from $$$$ breeders,especially in the cutting world.
    With careful breeding, and testing, there won't be an issue in the future. Without it...nastiness.


    HERDA is not like HYPP, however.It is recessive. If you breed a carrier to a non-carrier, you will NOT get HERDA.
    With HYPP, you have a 50/50 shot of the foal having HYPP if you breed a carrier to a non-carrier.
    $30, that's it.
    Test if you are breeding(IF needed)

    People who are breeding should be aware of the disease themselves, and test accordingly. That way THEY can make an infomed decision.The stallion owner also should discuss it with the mare owners.
    The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is just a little extra



  14. #14

    Default

    Merrygoround, take note of what? I've already stated I hope the AQHA does not allow two carriers to be bred.

    I think it would be silly to ban the breeding of a carrier though there not going to pass it on unless the mare owner breeds a carrier to another.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct. 14, 2005
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    2,607

    Default

    Since the HERDA gene did not originate with poco bueno (unlike HYPP and impressive), any similarly related horses (i.e. that share common ancestors w/ pb) should be tested.



  16. #16
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    Oct. 14, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    I've already stated I hope the AQHA does not allow two carriers to be bred.
    Given the state of AQHA and where their money comes from, I doubt that will ever happen. Hell, you can still register HYPP N/H horses.



  17. #17
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    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    Default

    BACK to the OPs question...

    I'd tell anyone I knew, that I KNEW was considering him, if they knew about HERDA. If they didn't, I'd explain it. If they were still interested in him...I'd tell them they'd better get THEIR mare tested, then, to be safe.

    That's all you can do.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    May. 28, 2006
    Location
    Central Mississippi
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    2,271

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ridenslide View Post
    As long as you don't breed to a carrier to a carrier, it is ok. There is a $30 test HERDA available.You should have you QH tested if it has Poco Bueno in the pedigree.
    $30 vs hell!
    The AQHA is facing flak from $$$$ breeders,especially in the cutting world.
    With careful breeding, and testing, there won't be an issue in the future. Without it...nastiness.


    HERDA is not like HYPP, however.It is recessive. If you breed a carrier to a non-carrier, you will NOT get HERDA.
    With HYPP, you have a 50/50 shot of the foal having HYPP if you breed a carrier to a non-carrier.
    $30, that's it.
    Test if you are breeding(IF needed)

    People who are breeding should be aware of the disease themselves, and test accordingly. That way THEY can make an infomed decision.The stallion owner also should discuss it with the mare owners.
    Okay, help me out here. If you breed a carrier to a non-carrier, does the recessive HERDA mutation just go away? Or does it stand a chance -- by my reckoning a 50 percent chance -- of being passed on to an offspring?

    If the answer is no, there is no chance it will be passed on, then no problem.

    But if the answer is yes, there is a chance it will be passed on, then why perpetuate the mutation?



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Mar. 9, 2006
    Posts
    147

    Default

    There is a 25% chance of it being passed on if you breed a carrier to a non-carrier.
    It is just like the Lethal Overo White Syndrome in Paints.You just DO NOT breed two carriers! There is an easy way out.Get tested. There are PLENTY of NON carriers that go back to Poco Bueno.

    I own a son of an HC positive horse,meaning he carries the HERDA gene.He's a gelding,so there is no need to test him, but I couldn't ride him if he were HC+.He is 11 now.


    He does scar easily & it grows back roan, though, so that could be a side effect, or it could be because he is red.
    Two of his sires first foals were HC+. That was 13 years ago.They learned quickly not to breed to those mares, even though they didn't know what they were dealing with.THe other 30 foals were fine. Now,13 years and hundreds of foals later, with HC- sons and daughters, THAT breeding program got rid of it AND produced a very successful sire!(That produces very talented,good-minded individuals that non-pros & youth can ride & can also win with the pros!)

    I don't know the status of his broodmares.However, the foals are NOT HC+ that he breeds himself.
    I would breed to the stallion myself, if I won the lottery, but at $7500 this year and probably going up next, I don't think so.
    The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is just a little extra



  20. #20
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    Why would you not breed a carrier as long as its not to another carrier? Thats like saying you'd never have a HYPP N/N horse because of the disease.
    The reason I wouldn't breed a carrier is that most people do NOT get their horses tested before breeding, and testing isn't required for AQHA registry. So, mare owner breeds to stud, gets a carrier foal, doesn't test. Affected babies are then born, and the animals end up suffering (although we've had this discussion, and apparently you don't think animals suffer like humans).

    You could say "only breed to tested non-carriers," but then you can't control what happens to all of the carrier babies that are born.

    And gawd no, hypp N/H should not be bred.



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