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  1. #41
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    Mar. 20, 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by EShunter View Post
    Isox is not legal. I don't remember how long they have to be off of it, but it's a while. Most top show barns medicate. They know the rules, ad they follow them. On the other hand, there are those that don't care if they are busted and will ace before the owner shows.
    Ummmmm. I'm with CBoylen on this one. I (and my vet) am also under the impression that isoxsuprine IS LEGAL.



  2. #42
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    Jun. 1, 2002
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    Indiana
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    Isox is legal and unrestricted.

    (my vet says it doesn't do anything though)



  3. #43
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Isox is not legal. I don't remember how long they have to be off of it, but it's a while.
    For the USEF, Isox is legal, and even unregulated. The long withdrawal time is for FEI.



  4. #44
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    I'm not saying I know the whole world by any means, but if the stat is really 80% I would think I would at least know ONE person that was doing this....and I do know more than a few ppl who show
    I don't know anyone who shows a horse without an NSAID. I think we cancel each other out .



  5. #45
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    The Bayou City
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    I don't know anyone who shows a horse without an NSAID. I think we cancel each other out .

    even young horses? WTF?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  6. #46
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    Flshgordon, I responded because I more or less agree with DMK's stats, for one thing, and for another, wanted to show how people's experiences vary.
    For instance, the people that I know well enough to discuss with, or be witness to, their med programs, are people who show horses that are on the road for long periods of time, with the accompanying smaller stalls, lack of turnout, higher workload, and questionable footings. They show at a high level, and are knowledgeable and experienced enough with medications to use them appropriately and effectively. They use what is available to them and what they consider beneficial.
    If I knew a more diverse group of people with varying circumstances my experience would be different. Your experience is different. The rules are the same for everyone though, so as long as they're complied with I'm not going to question anyone's choices.



  7. #47
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    Aug. 31, 2004
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    VA
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    Well god damn, I'd hate to be on bed rest and then taken out an hour a day to run, put back in with some nice clothes on, and taken out the next moring. I'd be sore as all get out. My horse goes out for 16 hours a day at home. He has a 12 by 12 box stall. 144 square feet. He works around 20 minutes a day, just a hack to let him loosen up. He might jump twice a week, three if he's being really bonkers. Now at a horse show? He'll leave tuesday and get no turnout until sunday. He lives in a 9 by 9 box stall in which he can just barely turn around, which is often on concrete or some other icky surface. He sometimes jumps 4 of 5 days at the show, and he works 20 minutes a day...before 6 AM. Really, I'm not putting him through that without something at night to help with the soreness. He'd handle the workload great if he could be turned out or had a decent sized stall. He'd handle the confinement great if he wasn't expected to work at that level. What kind of moral high horse is worth it? Why NOT give him an NSAID in case he is uncomfortable other than to feel superior? It's certaintly not in his interest.
    -Grace



  8. #48
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    The Bayou City
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    Orange One....I am NOT trying to be "superior". I guess I am just naive. My hunter can go and live in a 12x12 stall for 5 days at a time, compete, not get turn out, and be in the ribbons without nsaids but maybe I am just short changing him. It never occurred to me that I should 'just try' something to see if he could be any better....other than a better rider of course
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  9. #49
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    Aug. 31, 2004
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    I want to show where you show if you get 12 by 12! I'm always stuck in the danged circus tents. Give it a shot (no pun intended, plenty of oral meds available) and see if he is more comfortable. You might be doing him a great favor by giving him something after he shows to keep soreness from setting in because of the conditions. Equioxx has been shown to have far less of an adverse effect on the stomach, so that is what I use.
    -Grace



  10. #50
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    Mar. 6, 2002
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    The Bayou City
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheOrangeOne View Post
    I want to show where you show if you get 12 by 12! I'm always stuck in the danged circus tents. Give it a shot (no pun intended, plenty of oral meds available) and see if he is more comfortable. You might be doing him a great favor by giving him something after he shows to keep soreness from setting in because of the conditions. Equioxx has been shown to have far less of an adverse effect on the stomach, so that is what I use.

    sorry that was more of a misquote after reading he lived in a 12x12. It's usually more like 10x10....luckily we have yet to see a 9x9!!! At least I think so.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    "There is just as much horse sense as ever, but the horses have most of it"



  11. #51
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    Feb. 22, 2000
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    I think a lot of people get lost in the distinction between "need" and "may benefit from". I don't know any horses (speaking of ones I know well, on a daily basis) who require medication to show. If a horse really needs medication, chances are that the allowed limits and time frames of legal ones aren't going to make much difference to him.
    A horse may, however, go fine on nothing, but still benefit from an NSAID. Maybe the second day of the division it's not as straight, or lands a little more shallow in the line, or doesn't quite step out at the trot as much as it does at its best, or shakes its head a bit on landing because its feet sting, or a million other tiny little flaws that make the difference between first and third. A more comfortable horse doesn't only feel better, it goes better.



  12. #52
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    Apr. 13, 2003
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    Wellington, FL
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    Im with CBoylen. Legal amounts of NSAIDs are fine by me. If you are allowed to use them responsibly to let your horse be more comfortable in a situation that is unnatural or not the norm for them (being at a show vs home), then why not. Of course there are horses who don't need anything, so by all means dont give them any.

    That being said, Ill get back on topic.
    A week before the show ours get started on Ranitidine, and stay on it throughout the show. Our barn's standard SmartPak (MVPs 4-in-1 and Electrolytes--spring and summer). After a long day of schooling/showing they will get a gram of bute with their dinner, and maybe some robaxin (legal limit of course). Some of them will skip the bute and get banamine instead, some might get equiox. Thats pretty much it. Varies from horse to horse.

    I usually take 800mg motrin in the AM and the PM, and maybe some robaxin as well at night! And Im not that old LOL.



  13. #53
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    Nov. 7, 2001
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    East Coast, here and there!
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    It's frustrating to read the responces who think the big A barns are "drugging" the horses. The USEF drug regulations ALLOW this - and it's not illegal.... if we were in Europe, it would be a different story, but we're not!

    Most of the hunters I know who show on the Big A Circuit get some bute or banamine, a light lunge in the morning, and an assortment of wraps in the evening. Robaxin, sarapin, magnesium, dexamethasone, and medroxyprogesterone, are no strangers to the medication trunk and are used when necessary within USEF limits....



  14. #54
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    May. 31, 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by slainte! View Post
    It's frustrating to read the responces who think the big A barns are "drugging" the horses. The USEF drug regulations ALLOW this - and it's not illegal.... if we were in Europe, it would be a different story, but we're not!

    Most of the hunters I know who show on the Big A Circuit get some bute or banamine, a light lunge in the morning, and an assortment of wraps in the evening. Robaxin, sarapin, magnesium, dexamethasone, and medroxyprogesterone, are no strangers to the medication trunk and are used when necessary within USEF limits....
    to you and many others, well said!



  15. #55
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    Feb. 6, 2000
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    MA
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    Quote Originally Posted by CBoylen View Post
    I don't know anyone who shows a horse without an NSAID. I think we cancel each other out .
    I might give an NSAID during the course of a multi-day show, depending on the circumstances, but the default for my horse and the friends I show with is nothing.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  16. #56
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    Jan. 22, 2006
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    I like that they can have NSAID because I agree that it might not be fair to the horse to lock it up have it work hard for 3 or 4 days in a row. My horse is NOT lame without the bute, but hes very very lazy so when hes a little bit stiff he just doesn't move the way he can. He can show without it and be ok ie not lame, in the ribbons at schooling shows with children because he takes such good care of them, but when clean changes matter, being straight and against better movers at overnight shows he needs it to perform his best, but he is also 19 and been working hard his whole life. There are other drugs that get abused but its not the NSAIDs that are consistently abused.



  17. #57
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    May. 2, 2003
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    Celina, TX
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    Quote Originally Posted by gottagrey View Post
    I would suggest you read the USEF list of banned substances, then the ingredients of anything you might think of putting in or on your horse. As some of the most benign sounding things are forbidden substances such as Lavender..
    How true. My horse is on Black As Knight and it has capisian (sp?) which is in paprika. So my mare would test because of a coat supplement



  18. #58
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    Nov. 7, 2001
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    East Coast, here and there!
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    Black as Knight makes a horse show friendly formula now!



  19. #59
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    Apr. 11, 2006
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    Virginia
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    The day they made Dex illegal ( the small amount that is legal is not helpful in my case) was the day I had to retire my hunter. Thankfully he was 15, and was more or less ready to be retired. He responded as well to the first shot of Dex, as he did to the second. It really did not alter his mental status at all, it simply made a horse with a fused vertabrae (injury occured at 4) able to walk down the lines, instead of run like hell. Without Dex, he would have been unsuitable for the show ring, and he actually really enjoyed it. He hated trail rides, and for the majority of his life, acted like the Thoroghbred he is, making him unsuitable for a novice rider. With the Dex, I was able to keep him in work, and showing, so that when he was older and experienced he COULD step down from the show ring, and carry a beginner. The Dex also made him comfortable enough to relax in his job, so he learned he didn't have to be tense or fast. Long story short - he's 18, and my sister rides and jumps him lightly. Thanks to medication.

    Sometimes managing a horse with suitable drug therapy is the difference between a horse with a job, and (lets face it) a dead one. For most people a horse is too expensive to be an ornament. If a few meds make him useful - thats great.

    Same token - I think people who use major meds to keep a horse going through acute injuries instead of resting the injury and giving it time to heal, or use them to keep an older horse going EVERY weekened just to get to Indoors, well that is unethical in my book. Especially when in the long term, they are lessening a horses longevity, instead of promoting it.



  20. #60
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    Nov. 7, 2001
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    But with dexamethasone, it's fact that over dosing a horse with it WILL cause the animal to founder.

    There's many other combinations of medications that could have helped your TB hunter.... magesium and sarapin is a popular choice amoungst the hunter set these days, as well as robaxin, gastrogaurd, banamine or bute. The weeks the hunter wasn't showing you could have been giving him therapuetic doses of robaxin and then backing off the horse show regs for show weeks!

    Dexamethasone can be fatal if not used correctly, this is why a rule was put in place.



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