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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2004
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    234

    Default Horses I bred being auctioned off.... UPDATE on sale: I am SICK!!!

    I just received a email saying:

    Hello, I am forwarding a mess from XXXX XXXX re this sale:
    XXXX at XXXX has to auction 4 horses that a boarder left at her barn. There are 2 mares and
    their babies – about 18 months and 2 yrs. One is by XXXX, and both came from XXXX. The owner
    left her w/several months board due, along with some medical bills during their stay, and she has
    to try to get back some of her expenses. She didn’t want to auction them, and has tried to figure
    a way to keep them at the barn, but she can’t use the horses and can’t absorb the costs any
    longer. Her attorney said that this is the only way she can be unencumbered. The auction is on
    September 6, at 4:00. Please pass this along to anyone on your e-mail list, and any others that
    might have an interest. I don’t know how likely it would be that the meat man would show up at
    something like this, but I hate to think of that happening.



    I sold this woman the one mare in foal and am devastated to hear this. I will be at the auction with a small amount of free funds to do my best in recovering the mare/resulting foal I sold. I had to ask this boarder leave as well because of the same reasons.

    One foal is by my stallion. I sold the one mare in foal to this lady and the mare produced a colt. This is the reason I would like to see about getting back the one mare/resulting foal back, but I am still recooping from medical bills from my successful breast cancer treatment. I will go with the little I have in savings.. and pray I can get them back

    I am SICK to hear about this. The mare is VERY sentimental to me as her dam was one of my foundation mares started breeding with LONG ago. I would hate to see this mare get into the wrong hands again and would love to have her home back here for life. I was on the fence about selling her in the first place!!!

    My medical bills just do not leave me with a ton of free $ to bid on them right this second and I don't know what kind of other means I have to get them back. I did write in my contract if they could not longer be cared for, or wanted, I wanted first right of refusal. I have not been contacted by the lady about this though.

    Any other ideas for me on what to do?? Anyone else dealt with a situation like this??

    Thank you to anyone with ideas for me
    Last edited by Delkredere; Sep. 6, 2008 at 07:07 PM.



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 30, 2008
    Location
    Sioux Falls, SD
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    1,460

    Default

    Could you contact the woman auctioning them and offer to buy the mare/foal from her on payments? Explain the situation and see if she'd work with you?



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2004
    Posts
    234

    Unhappy

    I think there is a lein on them, hence the sale... she can't sell them privately. So, they have to be autioned off



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    4,452

    Default

    Oh that just stinks ...

    How is the horse market in your area? What are the chances for them going for decent money?

    Looking on the bright side, you will probably get them for FAR less than what you could negotiate a private sale on them for. They may well go for less that what is even owing on them - board and expenses wise - and you will come out a winner and your mare will come back home once again ...

    Good luck - we'll all be rooting for you. Let us know how you make out!



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
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    Loudoun County, VA
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    10,427

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Delkredere View Post
    I think there is a lein on them, hence the sale... she can't sell them privately. So, they have to be autioned off
    I believe she could sell them privately if the owner would agree (in writing) to give the horses to her in exchange for the outstanding board bill. The BO should ask her lawyer about that. Even if they go to auction, the maximum the BO would be entitled to would be the amount of the outstanding bill; if the horses bring more money, the additional amounts have to go back to the owner. Thus, provided BO could recoup the amount she is owed in a private sale, she has no monetary incentive to do an auction. But, she can't sell privately unless the owner turns the horses over to her.

    I also would try to assert your contractual right of first refusal. Kind of a longshot, but it is a kind of encumbrance on the horse and you were first in time. It depends on the language of the lien statute in that jurisdiction and on the contractual language, but the argument would be that your rights are superior to that of the BO's (with the more recent in time lien).



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov. 4, 2003
    Location
    Dallas, Georgia
    Posts
    16,827

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by YankeeLawyer View Post
    I believe she could sell them privately if the owner would agree (in writing) to give the horses to her in exchange for the outstanding board bill. The BO should ask her lawyer about that.
    Very good idea!
    <>< Sorrow Looks Back. Worry Looks Around. Faith Looks Up! -- Being negative only makes a difficult journey more difficult. You may be given a cactus, but you don't have to sit on it.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2004
    Posts
    234

    Default

    I finally got a hold of the barn owner this afternoon. The back board on all 4 horses is 9K. This barn owner called me about 4-5 months ago and asked about getting ahold of the owner, if I had problems getting money out of her when she boarded with me. She wanted money for them then. Fast forward to today when I spoke with her: She said she offered them to me back then for FREE. HUH NO YOU DIDN'T!! I told her I would have taken then back in a heartbeat. I am SO MAD right now you have NO IDEA!!

    I told her I had a first right of refusal agreement and asked if I might be able to buy them for each of the 2 horses I bred back board... she has to call and ask the lawyer. Still, I don't have $4,500 just laying around. I have about $500 free and then some very generous people have donated up to $650 as of right now. $1,150 is nowhere close to paying off the board on them. I had no clue the board was that high.

    So, I don't know what to do. Just go to the auction and pray I get enough scraped together by then to get them back??? The two I bred are the ones everyone is interested in (of course!), but I don't want them to get into the wrong hands, and at this type of absolute auction, who knows who could end up with them.

    I am so SICK over this! Sorry to vent... but I just need input. I have never dealt with something like this before.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2007
    Location
    CT
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    5,992

    Default

    Since it doesn't seem like it is really financially smart for you to buy them back now, why not go to the auction and try to meet everyone. Be annoying if you have to and talk to everyone who is there to bid. You may very well know and like the people who end up bidding on them (since you say yours are attracting all the interest). If you don't know, but like, the people that bid on her, offer that they can board her with you for a while- then you can keep an eye on things and help them learn. If you don't like the people who bid on her, then you can bid and hopefully have enough to get her back.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 2, 2002
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    2,811

    Default

    It does not sound smart to me to wait for 9000 $ to raise in board until I do something.

    I guess the auction is much better and may give the horses much cheaper for you. Good luck for the horses and for you!!!
    Gwendolyn
    http://www.gestuet-falkenhorst.com
    Exceptional colored German WBs, TBs and Arabians



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2003
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    The good 'ole State of denial
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by joiedevie99 View Post
    Since it doesn't seem like it is really financially smart for you to buy them back now, why not go to the auction and try to meet everyone. Be annoying if you have to and talk to everyone who is there to bid. You may very well know and like the people who end up bidding on them (since you say yours are attracting all the interest). If you don't know, but like, the people that bid on her, offer that they can board her with you for a while- then you can keep an eye on things and help them learn. If you don't like the people who bid on her, then you can bid and hopefully have enough to get her back.
    I actually agree with this. Why knock yourself out and possibly set yourself up for financial hardship? Since you sold them and your primary concern is them going to a good home, go and watch the auction, meet the bidders, etc. If your primary concern is buying them back b/c you want them back then keep track of who purchases them, save up, and make an offer when you have the money available.

    Plus...nobody knows if they will sell for the 9k, they may be worth it, but given the circumstances, the advertising, etc it may be a low bid type day. Are they still going to sell if they don't come out even on the board payments? This might be when you get an edge.

    Good luck!



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep. 18, 2002
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    Tampa, FL
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    1,452

    Default

    My bet is they won't sell for anywhere close to what the board is. Don't pay her the 4500 now. She should have not waited so long to sell these horses for their board due.

    I sold one boarder's horse that owed 2100 in back board for 500. Another boarder offered to top the best auction price. So she brought her home. The owner who owed the board wanted to know why he couldn't have gotten her back for that. Doesn't work that way, buddy. Plus, the other (new owner) kept her board current!
    Beth Davidson
    Black Dog Farm Connemaras & Sport Horses
    http://blackdogconnemara.com
    visit my blog: http://ponyeventer.blogspot.com



  12. #12
    Join Date
    May. 17, 2000
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    Where am I and what am I doing in this handbasket?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delkredere View Post
    So, I don't know what to do. Just go to the auction and pray I get enough scraped together by then to get them back??? The two I bred are the ones everyone is interested in (of course!), but I don't want them to get into the wrong hands, and at this type of absolute auction, who knows who could end up with them.
    Honestly, if someone pays $4500 for them, they are not likely to end up in the wrong hands. "At risk" is around $1000 or less, I would think. Yes, any horse can end up in the wrong hands, we know that. But the odds work in your favor if the horse is valued up front, and $4500 isn't a small chunk of change even if it is bargain prices compared to the old economy.

    So go to the auction, be prepared to save them if they appear at risk. If someone is willing to pay the full ticket on them, then go introdue yourself, explain the situation, and let them know if they ever can't afford the horses or their circumstances change, you would be happy to take them back.
    Definition of "Horse": a 4 legged mammal looking for an inconvenient place and expensive way to die. Any day they choose not to execute the Master Plan is just more time to perfect it. Be Very Afraid.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    4,452

    Default

    Honestly, if someone pays $4500 for them, they are not likely to end up in the wrong hands. "At risk" is around $1000 or less, I would think. Yes, any horse can end up in the wrong hands, we know that. But the odds work in your favor if the horse is valued up front, and $4500 isn't a small chunk of change even if it is bargain prices compared to the old economy.

    So go to the auction, be prepared to save them if they appear at risk. If someone is willing to pay the full ticket on them, then go introdue yourself, explain the situation, and let them know if they ever can't afford the horses or their circumstances change, you would be happy to take them back.
    I agree with 100% what DMK is saying here ... The 'at risk" ones wont go for anything close to this amount!

    Good luck - when is the auction being held?



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun. 1, 2003
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    The Shake and Bake State
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    11,537

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DMK View Post
    Honestly, if someone pays $4500 for them, they are not likely to end up in the wrong hands. "At risk" is around $1000 or less, I would think. Yes, any horse can end up in the wrong hands, we know that. But the odds work in your favor if the horse is valued up front, and $4500 isn't a small chunk of change even if it is bargain prices compared to the old economy.

    So go to the auction, be prepared to save them if they appear at risk. If someone is willing to pay the full ticket on them, then go introdue yourself, explain the situation, and let them know if they ever can't afford the horses or their circumstances change, you would be happy to take them back.

    I agree too! Good luck!
    ~Amy~ TrakehNERD clique
    *Bugs 5/86-3/10 OTTB Mare* RIP lovely Lady, I miss you
    *Frodo '03 Anglo Trakehner Gelding*
    My Facebook



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 4, 2003
    Location
    Burleson, Texas
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    2,349

    Default

    There is no incentive for the BO to keep them, so the BO will likely be glad to stop feeding them and off the payroll.

    I agree that the most prudent thing for you to do is to watch the bidding and get nvolved only if you percoeve the bidders to put the horses at risk.

    I am going through chemo myslef right now and understand your perspective. I would also suggest that you calculat ewhat it will cost you to care and feed the horses for the short term - two years. I am also interested in the medical bills incurred. Just some more objective views for you to consider.

    To best servie your healing process at this time, you need to preserve yourself. To do that, will help you have a much brighter future. You cannot wear yourself down with burdens you cannot shoulder at this time. Allow yourself to heal. I wish you the very best.

    Sometime doing the right thing is the hardest thing. I'm sorry to hear about this mess.

    Kindly,
    Donna Ray
    Carson Farm
    www.carson-farm.com



  16. #16
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    Jul. 5, 2007
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    Beside Myself ~ Western NY
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    Default

    The last auction like this I heard of, the poor barn owner only ended up getting a couple of hundred dollars for each horse, and the horses got good homes. Bring your money, cross your fingers, and if the horses get another home, keep in touch with those people.
    Why is it that a woman will forgive homicidal behavior in a horse, yet be highly critical of a man for leaving the toilet seat up?
    ~ Dave Barry



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec. 28, 2004
    Posts
    234

    Default

    Just got back from the sale [edit].

    They had both colts in the ring, they sold the colt I bred first- Regina out bid everyone. Then took both colts out, without selling the other one- which I thought was weird. I said, she knows I am here to buy these two, and watch she will sell them first. They then brought both mares in. Of course, who do they start bidding on first?? The mare I bred. I noticed the mare was off... asked them to trot her. She is DEAD lame ALL over- front back, TERRIBLE. I cannot believe the shape she was in. I don't care, I have HUGE sentimental attachment to this mare. She would never be sold ever again. I keep bidding.. over 1k, I bid 1001, keeps going up- ONLY Regina bidding. Got to 3K for a DEAD LAME UNREGISTERED MARE, and I hit my max. of all my savings (all I have extra from my breast cancer medical bills) and donations I collected to try and save her. The poor mare met a worse fate than the meat man when that woman outbid not out of caring, but other agendas. At least the meat man would have let me buy her after the sale even to save her. Everyone who knows me, understands. You should have seen the sympathy in peoples eyes toward me. The KNEW what was going on, and it made them SICK too! She just shot her own reputation to be of being even an ounce of a decent human being. What she did was unhuman.

    She was just there to outbid me. She couldn't even look me in the EYE. She makes me SICK. I tried to buy them back for their board this past week. She wouldn't even call me back. I advised her they needed coggins for her to sell them- which she didn't know about (and they didn't have either!). I didn't have to be nice and make sure she knew about this. I have helped this woman on and off over the years only to be treated like this. (She even has graphics I CREATED on her website and NO CREDIT given back to ME for them!) EVERYONE saw what she was doing.

    I walked out. She makes me absolutely sick. Even though she had rights to buy them, I KNOW she did this on purpose. She completely avoided me. All I know is she has to stand and account in front of God one day for her actions. I would not want to EVER treat a person like this. I obviously was not there to flip flop a horse. I CARE ABOUT HER. Who else would offer to bid 3001K on a LAME horse? The board bill due on that mare was 2,250, so she was OVER what she was owed. Why else outbid me????? THAT right there should prove her agenda. Again, she makes me SICK!

    She said she offered these horses to me before- months ago. At that time I told her legally she coudn't just sell them to me and unless she could get the owner to agree, I couldn't. I never heard back about this till I got an e-mail from a group about the sale. I was helping her back them to not get in trouble selling them illegally. What do I get?? Does Regina call me, NOPE. So, I am making sure I do things right and this is what I get in return. I should have just been shady and bought them months ago, but it would not have been legal.

    Anyway. I am SICK over this and lost complete hope of any decent horse people in the world. I don't know if I want to do this anymore.

    Regina, if you read this and it gets back to you... I will pray for your soul. God takes note of everything we do. You will stand and account for it one day if you do not make things right as you know it should have been.

    I am learning God DOES handle things with people and we DO reap what we SEW!

    Thank you to everyone who did try and help me. I am putting all monies back in the mail on Monday.

    And to anyone looking to deal with this barn and owners- BE CAREFUL. I feel they are all about the money... not the care and true well being of horses. I apologize if this offends anyone, and all of the above is just my opinon. I wanted to let you all know the outcome as promised. [edit]

    Sad and sick of the world,
    T
    Last edited by Moderator 1; Sep. 8, 2008 at 09:16 AM. Reason: names, insults



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb. 11, 2005
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    Pa
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    1,607

    Default I don't understand...

    She had this auction at her farm?? How do you have an auction for only 4 horses? I would imagine the expense of an auctioneer wouldn't be worth what you would make. Did the other horses (ones you didn't breed or own previously) sell?? If she had the sale to sell them and then out bid the buyers what was the point? What is she doing with them now??
    "A little less chit-chat a little more pitter-pat"



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
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    Loudoun County, VA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delkredere View Post
    I walked out. She makes me absolutely sick. Even though she had rights to buy them, I KNOW she did this on purpose. She completely avoided me. All I know is she has to stand and account in front of God one day for her actions. I would not want to EVER treat a person like this. I obviously was not there to flip flop a horse. I CARE ABOUT HER. Who else would offer to bid 3001K on a LAME horse? The board bill due on that mare was 2,250, so she was OVER what she was owed. Why else outbid me????? THAT right there should prove her agenda. Again, she makes me SICK!

    T
    I would look carefully at the stableman's lien (or equivalent) laws in the relevant state. Something seems really off about what occurred, especially given that the BO only had the right to sell the horses at auction based on an outstanding board bill and was never entitled to more money than what was owed for that bill (anything collected above that amount has to go to the true owner of the horse). At the very least, it appears she owes a check to the horse's former owner. But my gut instinct, without being more familiar with the situation, is that it was a sham sale and I think you should look into what possible options you might have. I am not sure, for example, if her purchase of the horses in that manner was even valid -- because what she did was essentially end-run around the requirement of having a public sale. The law would not have permitted her to simply keep the horses, for example, due to the outstanding board bill.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jun. 23, 2004
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    Loudoun County, VA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRuss1996 View Post
    If she had the sale to sell them and then out bid the buyers what was the point?
    The horses were not owned by the Barn Owner. The Barn Owner's right to sell them at auction arose from a (supposed) outstanding board bill on those horses. In such situations, many states have a statute permitting the BO to sell the horses at public auction to recoup the monies owed for board. In those situations, they cannot simply keep the horse, or sell it privately (unless perhaps the horse's owner gave the horses to them), nor can they keep any amounts that exceed the amount owed for board. The public sale is to satisfy the lien.



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