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  1. #1
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    Dec. 23, 2006
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    Default Novice 3 Day

    We have the T3D in some areas. How many would like to see this extended to Novice level? Why?



  2. #2
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    May. 24, 2007
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    Default

    I would...because then I could do one NOW! I want to get really, really good at N (which I just started doing) before moving to T....so I expect I'll be here for a year or two, at least. It would be nice to be able to do a 3 day in the mean time.



  3. #3
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    Sep. 22, 2005
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    Southwest WA
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    Default We've had them

    Quote Originally Posted by TripleC View Post
    We have the T3D in some areas. How many would like to see this extended to Novice level? Why?
    Here we've had schooling three days beginning at BN. It is a kick in the pants! Very cool for all the riders to participate in a full length event even at the lower levels. They do, however, go around the steeplechase jumps rather than over them.



  4. #4
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    Sep. 21, 2005
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    Crestwood, KY
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    Thumbs up great idea!

    I would love it. T3DE is my goal, but it won't be happening as soon as I'd like, and I'm certainly not going to rush myself or my horses to get there. Being able to do it at a lower level would be really educational and stressful.



  5. #5
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Default

    I think it would be great and would love to see all Championships held in this format. I realize it's logistically challenging to say the least, but what a great learning opportunity and a chance to make an area championship REALLY mean something! That doesn't mean I'd like to see that be the only venue--the way we've been going with dressage and stadium this year a ribbon seems like a distant dream, never mind qualifying for a championship!
    Click here before you buy.



  6. #6
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    Dec. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kairoshorses View Post
    I would...because then I could do one NOW! I want to get really, really good at N (which I just started doing) before moving to T....so I expect I'll be here for a year or two, at least. It would be nice to be able to do a 3 day in the mean time.
    I sort of thought so too. My eventual goal is the T3D and the past two seasons I set out with that in mind, but with a short season and one horse (very capable), but things get in the way and at the end of the year, still happily doing Novice, but no T and no move up, hence no qualification for the T3D. And I thought, you know, what difference would it really make? The 3TD is not a full format anyway, so what if we could do the Steeplechase a few inches lower to be within Novice height and then run the S - XC over the Novice course. The rest is really the same and even the speeds are not that much more between N and T. We would still condition our horses the same as the Training level horses. And the truth is, there are MANY more Novice riders and entries than there are Training, so even more support.

    Just a thought. And I guessed I wasn't alone in this. Thanks for the input



  7. #7
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    Dec. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mgfpaints View Post
    I would love it. T3DE is my goal, but it won't be happening as soon as I'd like, and I'm certainly not going to rush myself or my horses to get there. Being able to do it at a lower level would be really educational and stressful.

    Right, and I do know of a few people (actually even myself in my own mind sometimes) who are trying to rush it to qualify, when they are happier and the Novice level and wouldn't mind staying there if there was a little more to do with it.



  8. #8
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    Dec. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by WeDoItAll View Post
    Here we've had schooling three days beginning at BN. It is a kick in the pants! Very cool for all the riders to participate in a full length event even at the lower levels. They do, however, go around the steeplechase jumps rather than over them.

    Wow - this sounds really fun. Where are you? Which event?



  9. #9
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    Oct. 22, 2001
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    5,088

    Default

    I hate to be the sad-sack in the group, but I actually don't like the idea. Part of the purpose of Novice is to be an introduction to the sport, and one of the things you're really working on at Novice level is a safe, careful, fairly slow, ride as the horse and rider are introduced to the concepts of riding across uneven terrain, to solid obstacles, water, ditches, and the discipline of three different phases. Adding the extra tests of a chase and some modicum of endurance is alot to add on for an inexperienced pair. Moreover, I don't think adding additional speed at Novice through a Steeplechase test is advisable. Young or less experienced horses don't need additional pressure of adding speed to the question of jumping, and I think a 'chase would only serve to increase anxiety and rushing in many of those horses and riders that is inappropriate to a Novice level XC course. And, I think a Novice 3-day would serve only to further make Novice level a mini-Rolex - which is not the direction I think the sport should go. I'd prefer to see Novice stay (or revert to), simple, inviting, questions that encourage a positive experience.



  10. #10
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    Dec. 18, 2003
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    I think it is would be very cool. I saw an ad recently in H&H for one in England with division equivalent to our novice and training. Here's the link to the site:

    http://mkec.co.uk/page_navigation/in...eedayevent.htm



  11. #11
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    Sep. 28, 2005
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    Default

    Wasn't there a push a few years ago to institute "Masters" classes at BN, N, and T that would still be within the guidelines, but more challenging for those riders who don't want to move up? That would accommodate the earlier poster who worried that a N3D would push green horse/rider pairs too far and those riders who want more challenging courses without the added height.



  12. #12
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    Sep. 5, 2005
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    Default

    I don't agree with Gotspots. I think BN is the appropriate level for introducing the skills she is talking about. I think Novice should be more difficult. I believe the more difficult questions should be presented at the lower heights rather than waiting to introduce them at the higher heights. I think it would be safer in the long run if the horses and riders were familiar with the questions as they move up the ranks. Then they wouldn't be confronted with a triple whammy when they move up: faster speeds, higher and wider fences and more difficult questions. One of the threads about the Aussies mentioned that their riders and horses master the difficult questions at the lower heights. It cetainly makes sense to me.



  13. #13
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    Default

    The 3TD is not a full format anyway
    Sure it is.

    As to Novice being meant as an introduction to the sport--well sure, but there are also many, many people (I am currently in this category) who have been eventing for YEARS and who are very happily tooling around Novice, either temporarily or permanently. Just because there is a "three day" format at Novice doesn't mean one has to enter it. It could be something that has certain criteria, just like a real 3 day, to discourage people (and horses!) from entering who are truly unprepared or only marginally prepared. But as my mom is fond of saying, "no education is ever wasted" and what BETTER way to teach the sport of eventing?
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  14. #14
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    Apr. 30, 2002
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    The Area II training three day event is full format, i.e., "classic" in that we have dressage on day one, endurance on day 2 consisting of roads and tracks, steeplechase, roads and tracks and cross country; and stadium jumping on day 3. What three day event used to mean.

    I think the chief problem with offering a hybrid educational competition LIKE the T3D is the tremendous time and labor problem; there are just not enough volunteers to staff a training level one, let alone a novice one.

    And one would have to also slow the steeplechase speed to the point where it wouldn't be a steeplechase any more, really.....just kind of a canter steeplechase, sort of a playtime steeplechase...and any time you fool around like that I think you invite trouble. Those fences are meant to be brushed through at speed, that's how a horse is taught to jump them.
    "Passion, though a bad regulator, is a powerful spring." -- Emerson
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  15. #15
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    Dec. 23, 2006
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by retreadeventer View Post
    The Area II training three day event is full format, i.e., "classic" in that we have dressage on day one, endurance on day 2 consisting of roads and tracks, steeplechase, roads and tracks and cross country; and stadium jumping on day 3. What three day event used to mean.

    I think the chief problem with offering a hybrid educational competition LIKE the T3D is the tremendous time and labor problem; there are just not enough volunteers to staff a training level one, let alone a novice one.

    And one would have to also slow the steeplechase speed to the point where it wouldn't be a steeplechase any more, really.....just kind of a canter steeplechase, sort of a playtime steeplechase...and any time you fool around like that I think you invite trouble. Those fences are meant to be brushed through at speed, that's how a horse is taught to jump them.

    Hmmm, OK I understand about "brushing" through the steeplechase jumps. But don't forget, Training speed is slower than the Prelim and the brush jumps are lower too. So this doesn't mean that a Novice horse can't brush throw a lower jump at a slightly slower speed. Actually, we already do that. There are quite few courses in our Area (Area 3) that are brush jumps on Novice courses.

    I do know the T3D is run over 3 days, but I also understand (maybe I am wrong?) but it is not a full roads and tracks OR steeplechase, but just an abbreviated version of both.

    But you are right about volunteers and staffing it all. I do know that is already a problem and we are already faced with loosing the few T3Ds that we have. That is why I was throwing about the debate to extend it to Novice, since there are a lot more Novice riders and entries than Training. And in this hypothetical dream Novice 3 day, the same entry requirements could apply i.e. completing 4 Novice events (or even more) with no XC penalties, a min Dressage score, etc.

    Its all for fun, anyway. Sort of like going on a "cattle drive" or "wagon train" excursion. It wont ever be for real anymore, its just a glimmer of what it once was. More of a touchstone than anything.



  16. #16
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    Jan. 16, 2002
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    West Coast of Michigan
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    Default

    Yes, the distances and speeds for a T3D are scaled down proportionally from a CCI*, just like a CCI* is scaled down proportionally from a CCI**, and so on.
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  17. #17
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    May. 12, 2008
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    I would be all for a long format 3 day Novice. My biggest problem with any 3 day is that I have to have three days to participate....

    If there was a three day (especially if it could be at Fair Hill where I can trailer in every day - not sure how my mare will deal with a stall), I would DEFINITELY like to participate.



  18. #18
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    Oct. 24, 2003
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shortstroke View Post
    I don't agree with Gotspots. I think BN is the appropriate level for introducing the skills she is talking about. I think Novice should be more difficult. I believe the more difficult questions should be presented at the lower heights rather than waiting to introduce them at the higher heights. I think it would be safer in the long run if the horses and riders were familiar with the questions as they move up the ranks. Then they wouldn't be confronted with a triple whammy when they move up: faster speeds, higher and wider fences and more difficult questions. One of the threads about the Aussies mentioned that their riders and horses master the difficult questions at the lower heights. It cetainly makes sense to me.
    I am right there with you! You would still have to qualify, same as with a T3D, so why the concern of over facing here? I think it's a great idea and it may well be the best way to keep the long format alive long enough to make it profitable again for organizers.

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    The above post is an opinion, just an opinion. If it were a real live fact it would include supporting links to websites full of people who already agreed with me.

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  19. #19
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    Jun. 25, 2004
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GotSpots View Post
    I hate to be the sad-sack in the group, but I actually don't like the idea. Part of the purpose of Novice is to be an introduction to the sport, and one of the things you're really working on at Novice level is a safe, careful, fairly slow, ride as the horse and rider are introduced to the concepts of riding across uneven terrain, to solid obstacles, water, ditches, and the discipline of three different phases. Adding the extra tests of a chase and some modicum of endurance is alot to add on for an inexperienced pair. Moreover, I don't think adding additional speed at Novice through a Steeplechase test is advisable. Young or less experienced horses don't need additional pressure of adding speed to the question of jumping, and I think a 'chase would only serve to increase anxiety and rushing in many of those horses and riders that is inappropriate to a Novice level XC course. And, I think a Novice 3-day would serve only to further make Novice level a mini-Rolex - which is not the direction I think the sport should go. I'd prefer to see Novice stay (or revert to), simple, inviting, questions that encourage a positive experience.
    I have to agree with GotSpots on this one.
    Novice is an introductory level for the horse. It should be a fairly simple course, easy combinations that can be done a steady to quick canter. You are not really galloping at novice speeds.
    True, the T3D is a lower & slower version of a 1*, just like the 1* is a lower/slower version of a 2* and so on. The But here is that training speed is definitely faster so you would actually have to gallop on steeplechase to make time.
    I do have plans of doing a T3D as a stepping stone to Prelim and a 1*.
    Having moved from Novice to Training to Prelim before - I see an advantage for the T3D before moving up to Prelim, not so much for a N3D moving from Novice to Training.
    "Never do anything that you have to explain twice to the paramedics."
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  20. #20
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    Oct. 11, 2007
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    Default

    I think it's a good idea -- note that a lot of the people who've said they support it do NOT intend to move up; they just want a flavor of the "real" sport. Novice is not just for "novices" anymore; there are a lot of "weenie" adults out here who find that level challenging enough. And there are a lot more Novice riders than Training riders, which means a bigger pool of potential entries.

    I'd be right there with y'all if there was a BN3D



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