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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default Help me develop my eye

    I like this thoroughbred mare for sale. Scroll down to Star. http://www.leightonfarm.com/OnTrack.htm She won $100K at the track and is sound. I'm a bit smitten and if she were closer I would go look at her.

    Is her conformation as good as I think it is? Personally, having a hard time finding a flaw, besides she may be a little short.

    Would her height, 15 hands, disqualify her from some registeries? I looked at AHS and didn't see that it would eliminate her, but I'm not familiar with all the registeries' rules.

    Assuming you would want to breed this mare for a hunter or dressage keeper foal, which registery do you think she would fit with?

    ETA** Is this an example of a good throatlatch?
    http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j1...t/Areselle.jpg
    Photo is from the free broodmare lease page, GrandIllusionSportHorses.
    I really like this mare. Someone remind me she is too far away.
    Last edited by One is Enough; Aug. 20, 2008 at 05:04 PM. Reason: Added another horse to discuss



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default Anyone willing to share their opinion about this mare?

    anyone...

    I don't bite.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    She's a beauty! No other comments, tho. Pedigree?



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan. 14, 2003
    Location
    Rawley Springs, Virginia
    Posts
    2,466

    Default

    What would be her purpose? For riding or breeding? What discipline?

    I like her big shoulder and big hindquarter, but hate her short neck with her thick throatlatch. Her size would be a killer for marketability of herself or her foals.
    Chris
    Ladybug Hill--Hunters and Ponies
    WWSD? (what would Suerte do?)



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,860

    Default

    The biggest flaw I see is her price tag. They are way out of touch with reality there. I wouldn't give her a second look.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan. 2, 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    1,395

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    The biggest flaw I see is her price tag. They are way out of touch with reality there. I wouldn't give her a second look.
    Yes, I thought so, too.



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec. 2, 2004
    Posts
    3,270

    Default

    For a lot less $ she would be elegant to use as a broodie for the large pony market. Very pretty, but 'Hold Your Horses' if you're wanting something more from her.
    The truth is what you can get other people to believe.

    -- Tommy Smothers



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 1999
    Location
    Clayton, CA USA
    Posts
    4,966

    Default

    I really like her, but I share the concern about her size and becoming a broodmare, unless it is for ponies. I also think the prices on all those horses are out of touch with reality.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul. 26, 2008
    Location
    middle-of-nowhere, MD
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Based on what it cost me to ship a horse from OK to MD a few years ago, I 'spect you'll pay almost as much to ship her as you would to buy her!
    My farm has dealt with Kimberly Clark before, and she seems like a reputable person. The prices on a lot of the horses are what the owners are asking, but I suspect they're quite negotiable. Too bad there's no video of her movement. Personally, I'm not put off by smaller sport horses, so her size doesn't bother me, and because she *is* horse-sized, I don't know of any breed registries would disqualify her strictly on size. If you want to breed medium or large ponies, she would almost certainly be fine size-wise, if you bred her to a 13H or smaller stallion. However, I agree with the person who objected to her neck/throatlatch. Eek! If you want to breed dressage horses I would pass on that conformation no-no -- unless you have a swan-necked stallion in mind who totally stamps his offspring with is head and neck, and you want to risk it. Her hind cannon bones look a little long, but otherwise I like her.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by vcarson View Post
    Based on what it cost me to ship a horse from OK to MD a few years ago, I 'spect you'll pay almost as much to ship her as you would to buy her!
    My farm has dealt with Kimberly Clark before, and she seems like a reputable person. The prices on a lot of the horses are what the owners are asking, but I suspect they're quite negotiable. Too bad there's no video of her movement. Personally, I'm not put off by smaller sport horses, so her size doesn't bother me, and because she *is* horse-sized, I don't know of any breed registries would disqualify her strictly on size. If you want to breed medium or large ponies, she would almost certainly be fine size-wise, if you bred her to a 13H or smaller stallion. However, I agree with the person who objected to her neck/throatlatch. Eek! If you want to breed dressage horses I would pass on that conformation no-no -- unless you have a swan-necked stallion in mind who totally stamps his offspring with is head and neck, and you want to risk it. Her hind cannon bones look a little long, but otherwise I like her.

    Thank you for all the comments on her conformation. I don't think I tuned into the throatlatch area or the neck being short. Is that based on the second photo too? I think the second photo puts her throatlatch in a better angle, but what do you think? Also I think she would hold her head up higher if let go of than in the second picture. Not that that would make her neck longer, I was thinking about headset. Anyway, I appreciate all the helpful comments on her conformation as I'm trying to learn all I can before I buy a horse.

    I emailed Kimberly and she has quite the backlog of photo/video requests. It will be two weeks before she can put up a video on the website. Maybe we can discuss her movement then. I don't know if I'm good at judging movement at all.

    That's quite the eye opener about shipping. Yes, I knew it would be high, but didn't expect quite that high. Normally, I wouldn't even consider a horse so far away, but she quite grabbed my attention. Maybe I can find one closer, that I really like... even though it seems like a sea of straight shouldered, poorly conformed quarter horses around here OR some quite expensive, beautiful wb foals.

    My size range is 15-16.2 hands. She is on the low end of that, but I think it would still be fine. I used to ride quarter horses, but have been riding other breeds to find the one I would like to buy. I like the floaty trot of the swedish warmblood I rode, but the thoroughbred has been my favorite so far. I was blown away by the power of their canter and gallop.

    If I did buy her and decide to breed her, I was thinking Appendix for barrel racing or Hanoverian for anything else, except jumping. Don't get mad. I'm not saying Hanoverians can't jump, just that I probably won't do any jumping The foal would be a keeper/replacement for the mare and not be expected to go beyond training level or local circuit barrel racing. If I went the into English disciplines, it would give the foal plenty of time to grow up while I take English lessons. I don't think I would get serious about showing. Mostly, she would be a seriously spoiled (in a good way), all around riding horse.

    I'll continue this later. Keep on telling me this mare is too expensive and too far away. I still like her too much.



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 1999
    Location
    Midland, NC, USA
    Posts
    7,246

    Default

    From the musculature in her neck, I would say the conformation photo shows her normal neckset, either way is not good. Both pix show the same thick throatlatch. Maybe she developed it through cribbing or windsucking, maybe it is genetic, either way yikes again. And waaaaaay too expensive. Too bad as the rest of her is quite nice.

    For overall balance, Perry is cute... and realistically priced.... a more rangy type though....

    Jennifer



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov. 2, 2001
    Location
    Packing my bags
    Posts
    31,900

    Default

    I am not a breeder, I like her.

    She seems to fit together well. But without seeing her move...
    Quote Originally Posted by Mozart View Post
    Personally, I think the moderate use of shock collars in training humans should be allowed.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Oct. 4, 2003
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    7,412

    Default

    I agree with the posts so far. She is a nice mare, but you can find better especially for the price. I would not buy a mare for sporthorse breeding who is under 15.3 h unless I was breeding ponies. It is just to hard to market the youngsters who are under 16.0 h. In regards to shipping, Cox Equine Transport just shipped a mare from Maryland to Oklahoma for us for $850.
    Silver Creek Farms - home of Apiro & Validation
    Visit us on facebook!



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    The biggest flaw I see is her price tag. They are way out of touch with reality there. I wouldn't give her a second look.
    What would be a reasonable price for her?



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,860

    Default

    Free or very close to it in this market.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ThirdCharm View Post
    From the musculature in her neck, I would say the conformation photo shows her normal neckset, either way is not good. Both pix show the same thick throatlatch. Maybe she developed it through cribbing or windsucking, maybe it is genetic, either way yikes again. And waaaaaay too expensive. Too bad as the rest of her is quite nice.

    For overall balance, Perry is cute... and realistically priced.... a more rangy type though....

    Jennifer
    I think I need help judging the throatlatch area. Can someone show a horse with a good throatlatch? Maybe tell me what width it should be in relation to the head or what you go by when looking at it. The first photo is easier for me too see the thickness, but not the second. Oh and Star is supposed to be vice free, so it would be genetic.

    Perry is an interesting and pretty horse. When I look at her rangy build, I can picture her as a jumper or crossed with a Holsteiner. Neither are what I would want to do. With her trot, I'm not seeing a hunter movement. Too much knee, am I right??



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurierace View Post
    Free or very close to it in this market.
    I know the market is bad and ottb's a dime a dozen. I thought the reason she was priced high was, she earned over $100K at the track and is still sound. But I really don't know what the going rate for such a horse would be. Thanks for the eye opener.



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by showjumpers66 View Post
    I agree with the posts so far. She is a nice mare, but you can find better especially for the price. I would not buy a mare for sporthorse breeding who is under 15.3 h unless I was breeding ponies. It is just to hard to market the youngsters who are under 16.0 h. In regards to shipping, Cox Equine Transport just shipped a mare from Maryland to Oklahoma for us for $850.
    You are one of the breeders I was thinking of when I said expensive, beautiful wb foals earlier. And where are these horses you speak of? Feel free to send me a PM.

    Nice to know that shipping would be possible from MD.



  19. #19
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    Mar. 8, 2004
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    19,860

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by One is Enough View Post
    I know the market is bad and ottb's a dime a dozen. I thought the reason she was priced high was, she earned over $100K at the track and is still sound. But I really don't know what the going rate for such a horse would be. Thanks for the eye opener.
    None of that is relevant as they aren't marketing her as a racing broodmare. Not to mention you are taking their word that she is sound. I can think of one filly right now that is 100 times nicer than her that is free to good home assuming I don't taker her myself. With no retraining and her small size she is worth kill price which is about $400 IMO. Sorry, I am not trying to be mean, just telling you what I know the realities to be.



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Mar. 11, 1999
    Location
    Clayton, CA USA
    Posts
    4,966

    Default

    For a comparison of cost, take a look at some of the recently listed Fingerlakes horses. There are three mares in particular, and they are in a post about the Fingerlakes horses in Off Course, that are just beautiful, supposedly sound, of moderate size, and considerably less than $1k.
    Mystic Owl Sporthorses
    www.mysticowlsporthorses.com



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