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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calamber View Post
    Would go a long way to help overcome the overemotionalism that colors many of our so called debates.

    freiheit??....now let's not use a buncha deep thought here
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  2. #42
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    Mar. 4, 2008
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    Lots of things were legal that are now illegal. A large portion of our population wants to make exporting horse meat illegal. "Emotion" or passion has lead to many changes in our laws. We wouldn't have a country without it.



  3. #43

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    And alot of people don't want it illegal. Until its changed I see no reason that the people who want to sell slaughter horses shouldn't keep doing it. The U.S. Senate has shown no interest in changing the law at all that I can see.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  4. #44
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    Jun. 25, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    I don't see the big deal in exporting horse meat we export many species of meat why is it fine for some and not another just because some people here don't like to eat it?
    Cows and Pigs are different than horses. Way different. I know i dont want the pony i learned how to ride on hanging upside down with her throat slit while she bleeds out. That is disgusting plain and simple. I dont know how any person could watch that let alone do that. If people are going to insist on slaughtering our PETS than they should learn a more humane way to do it.



  5. #45
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    From an animal welfare/ethical standpoint Americans (or anyone who isn't a vegetarian) have absolutely no arguement against the slaughter of horses for consumption. A pig is a horse is a cow is a chicken is a cat ect ect. They all feel, therefor they all suffer. Bottom line?: You eat meat and oppose horse slaughter on an ethical basis then you are a hypocrite, plain and simple....no two ways about it and no getting around it!
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  6. #46

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    I see no differance from one species to another. I don't slaughter my pets but not all my horses are my pets same as my cattle, hogs, poultry every species I have. A few are pets most are livestock. Way big differance to me.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  7. #47
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    Mar. 1, 2007
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    If people are going to insist on slaughtering our PETS than they should learn a more humane way to do it

    Oh, I see. So if it's cute and fuzzy then it deserves our compassion..but if it tastes good or isn't cute then whatever, it's ok if it spends the vast majority of it's life in abject misery? ( and don't fool yourself, physiologically all mammals ..and vertebrates for that matter, are VERY, very similiar).

    What an incredibly selfish perspective. An animal only has value and is deserving of compassion if/when a human is attracted to it esthetically/culturally.
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



  8. #48
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    Aug. 26, 2001
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    Oxford PA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Secretariat2 View Post
    Lots of things were legal that are now illegal. A large portion of our population wants to make exporting horse meat illegal. "Emotion" or passion has lead to many changes in our laws. We wouldn't have a country without it.
    And many things that used to be illegal are now legal (example: abortion). I am astonished that in a country where it is LEGAL to kill human fetuses, it is ILLEGAL to kill horses.



  9. #49

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    Its not illegal to kill horses in the U.S. at all. Its only illegal to sell horse meat over the counter. I can kill and eat all the horses I want, feed them to my dogs, give the meat away, sell it private, or just kill them if I want to.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  10. #50
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    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
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    Just because something was legal or illegal and its changed, just means that government wants to dictate personal choice issues.

    Abortion & horse slaughter are to separate issues, that are not related. If you want to say all killing is bad, what about the death penalty and war in general. Then there's the saying two wrongs don't make a right and with that logic self defense would be wrong.



    What gets me in a world where there are many people going hungry and would have no problem eating horse meat, we seem to have an issue with slaughter of horses when there is an over population of them.



  11. #51
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    Jun. 25, 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    Its not illegal to kill horses in the U.S. at all. Its only illegal to sell horse meat over the counter. I can kill and eat all the horses I want, feed them to my dogs, give the meat away, sell it private, or just kill them if I want to.
    So are you saying you slaughter your horses and feed them to your dogs? well isnt that nice. just because you CAN do somthing doesnt mean you SHOULD.

    Oh, I see. So if it's cute and fuzzy then it deserves our compassion..but if it tastes good or isn't cute then whatever, it's ok if it spends the vast majority of it's life in abject misery? ( and don't fool yourself, physiologically all mammals ..and vertebrates for that matter, are VERY, very similiar).

    What an incredibly selfish perspective. An animal only has value and is deserving of compassion if/when a human is attracted to it esthetically/culturally.
    Im not trying to start an argument just stating my opinion. I dont agree with the way any animals are slaughtered, but i dont see that ending anytime soon. I dont agree with slaughtering OUR horses for other countries. I dont think horses should be eaten period. That is MY opinion. I think it is disgusting how are horses are killed. And horses are different than other livestock IMO. I have been around both and they are totally different. I know someone will throw a hissyfit for me saying this but they are smarter. Do cows do grandprix dressage? And the shipment of our horses over the border, In the trailers they cant even stand in to support themselves, where many fall and are literally trampled to death. I have very strong opinions on horse slaughter, and they may differ from yours, and isnt that what this discussion is all about. No need for bashing or to poke fingers, as i have not done that to you even though i easily could.



  12. #52

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    No i didn't say that at all. My dogs couldn't clean up a horse fast enough to keep it from spoling. But I know two people who raise dogs that butcher horses and feed them its no differant then a cow. One guy cooks it on the grill and eats it I've tryed it a couple times don't like it as much as beef but lots better then goat IMO. If you never try something you nevber know what its like except what someone else says. Same reason I've rode with hauling slaughter horses to the slaughter plants. You can experiance things first hand or just read about them.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  13. #53

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    BTW 1234 isn't that just nice.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by eqrider1234 View Post
    . . . . And horses are different than other livestock IMO. I have been around both and they are totally different. I know someone will throw a hissyfit for me saying this but they are smarter. Do cows do grandprix dressage? And the shipment of our horses over the border, In the trailers they cant even stand in to support themselves, where many fall and are literally trampled to death. . . .
    Well, many people would say that cows refusing to do grand prix dressage PROVES the cows are smarter.

    Regarding shipping of horses to slaughter - it IS wrong & a shame how they are shipped in many cases. I would certainly like (as I've already said) to see the trip shortened by having many slaughter plants in all states & I would like to see laws regarding shipment strongly enforced, I would prefer to see slaughter in the U.S. so we could regulate it, rather than in Mexico or Canada where we cannot regulate it. But transport is a separate issue from slaughter. If the transport was humane would slaughter be OK with you?



  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by county View Post
    Its not illegal to kill horses in the U.S. at all. Its only illegal to sell horse meat over the counter. I can kill and eat all the horses I want, feed them to my dogs, give the meat away, sell it private, or just kill them if I want to.
    Yes, county, you are correct. The private killing of horses is allowed. However, the slaughter plants have been closed based on legal issues & I believe the slaughter plants that were closed were the last ones in the U.S. at this time. That is the issue I was refering to, although I would agree I referred to it in an inaccurate & confusing matter & you cleared that up for everyone.



  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7HL View Post
    . . . . Abortion & horse slaughter are to [sic] separate issues, that are not related. . . .
    Abortion & horse slaughter seem to have a lot in common to me.

    (1) according to the article that started this particular debate, eating horse flesh is taboo because the Roman Catholic pope said so; well, abortion was taboo for the same reason.

    (2) both are ethical issues involving similar arguments & similar discussions.

    I could point out other parallels but it doesn't seem like that should be necessary with an intelligent audience able to think for themselves.



  17. #57
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    Nov. 12, 2001
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    Lemont, Il, USA
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donella View Post
    From an animal welfare/ethical standpoint Americans (or anyone who isn't a vegetarian) have absolutely no arguement against the slaughter of horses for consumption. A pig is a horse is a cow is a chicken is a cat ect ect. They all feel, therefor they all suffer. Bottom line?: You eat meat and oppose horse slaughter on an ethical basis then you are a hypocrite, plain and simple....no two ways about it and no getting around it!
    <blinks>

    This is a straw man arguement if ever I heard one. It simply is. not. true.

    Humans can and do make distinctions between species all the time. A sheep is NOT a horse. A fish is NOT a cow.

    And whether or not an animal is a companion IS a valid distinction, even WITHIN a species/family/genera/order. I would not eat one of the koi I raise and hand feed in my fish pond, but I eat both farmed and wild caught fish all the time.

    Oh, I see. So if it's cute and fuzzy then it deserves our compassion
    oops ... some of my fish are down right ugly - does that mean i have to eat them now? <rolleyes>



  18. #58

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    So does anyone ever wonder why if a pro slaughter person brings up cattle the anti crowd gets in a huff. But when anti slaughter people bring up cats, dogs, and abortion the anti crowd thinks thats fine? Seems like a very one way street they live on.
    Quality doesn\'t cost it pays.



  19. #59
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    So does anyone ever wonder why if a pro slaughter person brings up cattle the anti crowd gets in a huff. But when anti slaughter people bring up cats, dogs, and abortion the anti crowd thinks thats fine? Seems like a very one way street they live on.
    While most won't say it, I honestly believe the anti-slaughter group, at least the core part of them, want to eventually ban all slaughter.

    Another quirk, oddity is some of the Peta people would rather kill animals then have any human own or possess them.

    People here are complaining about horses for slaughter for human consumption, but all around the world they are eating type and shape of animal you can think of. From cat, to dog to guinea pig, you name it and it's being eaten somewhere.
    A horse doesn't care how mauch you know, until he knows how much you care.
    - Pat Parelli



  20. #60
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    Im not trying to start an argument just stating my opinion. I dont agree with the way any animals are slaughtered, but i dont see that ending anytime soon. I dont agree with slaughtering OUR horses for other countries. I dont think horses should be eaten period. That is MY opinion. I think it is disgusting how are horses are killed. And horses are different than other livestock IMO. I have been around both and they are totally different. I know someone will throw a hissyfit for me saying this but they are smarter. Do cows do grandprix dressage? And the shipment of our horses over the border, In the trailers they cant even stand in to support themselves, where many fall and are literally trampled to death. I have very strong opinions on horse slaughter, and they may differ from yours, and isnt that what this discussion is all about. No need for bashing or to poke fingers, as i have not done that to you even though i easily could.

    LOL. Well I don't like horses being slaughtered either, or any animal for that matter, so I don't give people who raise them for this my money, simple as that. Slaughtering of animals for consumption creates major welfare issues. But this is the case for all species and while you do think that horses are smart, it is a proven fact that pigs are one of the smartest species on the planet. Horses are different to you because you are conditioned to see them as pets vs food. BTW..you are poking fingers, at people who want to eat horse.

    This is a straw man arguement if ever I heard one. It simply is. not. true.

    Humans can and do make distinctions between species all the time. A sheep is NOT a horse. A fish is NOT a cow.


    Ok, I suppose I should have stated this more clearly. In terms of ability to suffer, a mammal is a mammal. I have a degree in animal physiology(prevet) and have had to look inside a good number of vertebrate species. Believe me, there are alot more similiarities than differences between a horse and a pig and us for that matter. Physically, a cow suffers as much as a horse does...or at least is as capable of it.

    In terms of mental suffering, well, that depends on alot of factors. How the animal was kept, if transport is involved (ethologists have pegged this as the MOST stressful event in the life of food animals..especially pigs!), if they are confined, how long, how much handling, how they are handled ect. It also depends on the intelligence of the animal. Pigs are generally considered to be smarter than dogs. Can you imagine the mental anguish your dog would feel if you locked him in a crate his entire life?

    Anyways, my point is because horses are no more capable of suffering than a pig or cow, they are no more deserving of compassion. At the end of the day, when an animal is in his moment of intense fear or pain..it really doesn't matter what WE (so incredibly egocentric) think of them, or how WE catagorize them. Their suffering is just the same.

    So, if you want to argue that horse slaughter is unethical because it causes mental anguish to humans, you definately have an arguement. But to say that it is unethical because it is inhumane....PULEASE. We only care about that when it isn't in our most selfish interest to cause pain/suffering (ie when we like the taste of them).
    www.svhanoverians.com

    "Simple: Breeding,Training, Riding". Wolfram Wittig.



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