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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2005
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    Default Question about Tennessee Walking Horses

    I'm looking to buy "one more horse" . Looking at a TWH gelding (I currently own a TWH gelding). I need help regarding this prospective gelding's hind end. When he walks/running walks, his back legs look wobbly, sort of all over the place. I think it looks worst in the hock movement -- they sort of "go out" at the hock. My TWH doesn't go like this. Seller says it's the "older type TWH" (he's got Carbon Copy in his papers) and that's it's normal. I rode this gelding and under saddle he seems to move fine. I will have a PPE prior to purchase, but any ideas about his hind end? Something I should be concerned with later on down the road (he's 11 now)?

    Oh Great COTHers -- help!!!
    If you cannot set a good example, at least serve as a terrible warning....



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 6, 2008
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    Under a rock
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    does he sort of "scissor" his back legs? My old TWH did that and I was also told it was a "classic" TWH thing. He was a Hard Texas Cash foal and had Sun's Delight D, Coin's Hard Cash etc. as grandsires.

    I don't know if this is what you are seing, and I don't know a ton about TWHs, just sharing my personal experiences here.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun. 11, 2006
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    503

    Default

    I have known some that sort of twist when they walk and some that kinda tight rope walk. All are sound with no problems. I was told it is the old style.
    http://community.webshots.com/user/snafflebitz

    "My Saddlebred can do anything your horse can do" Clique



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul. 21, 2006
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    Michigan
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    Default

    Can you video him for us?

    Short of that, watch him from behind. If it's in his hocks I'd worry.

    Is he is putting his foot down and then twisting the whole leg from hip to hoof? In our out?

    Does the hoof print stay clear and forward facing or does the dirt smear as he moves?

    Does his hock rotate in/out/around as his hoof contacts the ground???
    Crayola posse ~ Lazer Lemon yellow
    Take time to give...it is too short a day to be selfish. - Ben Franklin



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2005
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    Virginia
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DairyQueen2049 View Post
    Can you video him for us?

    Short of that, watch him from behind. If it's in his hocks I'd worry.

    Is he is putting his foot down and then twisting the whole leg from hip to hoof? In our out?

    Does the hoof print stay clear and forward facing or does the dirt smear as he moves?

    Does his hock rotate in/out/around as his hoof contacts the ground???

    Can't video -- he's too far away and I don't think the seller is that savy.

    He puts his hoof down (angled out -- I think) and twists his hock, and I *think* the hoof moves (smears) possibly to become straight. There's a LOT of wigly movement in the hock area. Twisting movement that's almost circlular at the hock in motion. Very noticable.

    He's not lame. He also is not as muscular in the hind end as I'd like to see. But then again, maybe I'm wrong in assuming he needs to look like my TWH. He rode out fine; didn't stumble or seem to have any issues (aside from being owned by a timid rider and he doesn't seem to know how to canter -- but he gaits great). Maybe the canter issue is related to the hocks??? I just don't know.

    I don't want to incur the PPE expense if this is something I should just walk away from now.

    Help!!!
    If you cannot set a good example, at least serve as a terrible warning....



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul. 2, 2008
    Posts
    346

    Default

    Now would be a good time to walk away from this TWH and keep looking until you find one that doesn't send off the warning bells in your head. Trust your instincts!

    Sounds to me like he's not obviously lame because he's not being ridden and once he's ridden or trailered any distance, the lameness will become more obvious. Also sounds like a pelvis problem. Think us with lower back issues. And he's compensating which is why you've got the twisty leg/hock motion.

    Good luck.



  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CanterQueen View Post
    Seller says it's the "older type TWH" (he's got Carbon Copy in his papers) and that's it's normal. I rode this gelding and under saddle he seems to move fine. I will have a PPE prior to purchase, but any ideas about his hind end? Something I should be concerned with later on down the road (he's 11 now)?

    Oh Great COTHers -- help!!!
    it's called wringing and no the old horses did not have it....it limits movement,twists off shoes behind and makes going forward at speed or any distance a LOT harder than it should be....
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2006
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    183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara in TN View Post
    it's called wringing and no the old horses did not have it....it limits movement,twists off shoes behind and makes going forward at speed or any distance a LOT harder than it should be....
    We breed the Carbon Copy line (have one old direct Carbon Copy), and several horses out of the Carbon Copy championship bloodlines line (Mark of Carbon , Touch of Mark, Touch's Macho Man) and ours do not have wobbly hocks.

    Regarding wringing hocks, I've seen wringing hocks in the show ring (I think), but I thought it was due to how the horse was shod. The horse would step down with the hind foot and then twist it. Is wringing actually passed in some TWH bloodlines and not man-made?



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    my now 3 YO did this a ton as a leggy 2 YO...very twisty hocked, slightly twisting her hinds inward just after the weight bearing phase of her stride) ...she's in training now and getting solid trail and road miles under her belt, building hind end strength...I noticed in her videos I shot that she's gotten much less wringy (what a great term, it's new to me, lol) as her stifles, butt, etc gets better muscled.

    Some are really extreme, though- she was not.



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar. 7, 2005
    Location
    Virginia
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    1,174

    Default Update

    Well, I passed on this gelding. Actually, we couldn't come to an agreement on purchase price. I would have done and extensive PPE prior to actually taking the gelding, but they want more for him (lots more) than I think an unfinished trail horse should go for.

    I knew this going in and did ask if the price was negotiable. Seller said it was, but we couldn't come to an agreement.

    Maybe I'll start a thread about prices in this current market and if sellers have been having a hard time selling their horses.
    If you cannot set a good example, at least serve as a terrible warning....



  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TouchMeKnot View Post
    Is wringing actually passed in some TWH bloodlines and not man-made?
    well yes to both as breeding is supposedly a "planned" thing ...you will see it most in horses whose hind cannons are just too long regardless of who is on the papers...not long enough and you have no overstride...too long and there is sort of spider-y movement to the hind legs...either out or in..

    done right there is a proper balance between a saddling horse and one with overstride but not pacing...

    you can shoe to make it less noticeable it but the wring then"rests" in the hock itself and does more damage...

    best
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb. 16, 2003
    Location
    MI USA
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    7,287

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    Bad legs and motion are in the breeding. They get passed on in families, expecially with line breeding. This would be why you watch a horse go, before you get on. Horse books show how to view a straight leg, from top to bottom, both front and hind legs. Each breed has their own proportions for being good at their jobs, but straight legged, crooked legged, twisting motions are something that needs to be noted before you continue with a sale horse to buy. Can you live with what is being shown to you?

    Wringing of hocks, twisting of pelvis joints, cranking the leg each stride, add MUCH wear and tear to the joints of leg. Can cause problems with horse going many miles in rough conditions. May never bother anything on a ring horse, who never goes down a trail.

    Every big name horse has a lot of produce, grandkids, that are much less horse than he was. The Dam adds 50%, and she may have been a piece of trash someone loved enough to breed. Some stallions do breed true. On most of their foals, you can read their imprint for the good or bad. The gaits, star, good temperment or terrible legs come on thru.

    I would pass on a horse with severe, wringing hocks. Lots of wear and tear happening in those joints every stride, which accumulates over time and use.



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 19, 2006
    Posts
    183

    Default

    Thanks for the info on the length of cannon bone and how it contributes.



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