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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysandbays View Post
    Perhaps it escaped your notice that the horse's OWNER was not posting here? Had that been the case, I would have told HER (HIM?) to take the damn thing out and shoot it. However, unlike some shit pit denizens, I try to avoid stabbing people in the back when they are not present to defend themselves.

    OP can either FIX this particular problem by taking the horse and killing it or she can howl and rant and bitch about "irresponsible owners" and accomplish nothing but garner "you-go-girl"s from the forum. Seems like she's more interested in the latter than the former (along with half the posters on this thread).

    That it should be the owner's responsiblity is a given. But that isn't happening. And likely won't happen. So what's your Plan B? Keep griping on a bulletin board while the horse suffers?
    Greysandbays, you have to be one of the most spiteful people to post here. I think your repugnant replies are just a very pathetic vie for attention. I hope the shock factor you're seeking soon wears off when people are wise to the vile and vindictive nature of your posts.
    Last edited by Katie-Nicole; Aug. 5, 2008 at 03:05 PM. Reason: tact



  2. #42
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    I'm not a fan of posts as 0-6000mph aggressive as greysandbays', but the comments about his/her comment are getting a little personal. "Vile and vindictive nature"?



  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    GAB, folks are objecting to your vitriolic and angry tone, and the OP was making the case that if a person owns an aged and marginally sound animal that they can't care for, it is THEIR responsibility to attend to euthanizing it instead of handing it off to another person (rescue or whatever) and expecting an appropriately caring situation to materialize, when in fact what is going to happen is the animal is very likely to come to a frightening and painful end.

    Few if any of the posters on this thread are opposed to euthanasia; most are arguing that if the animal has worked for you, you OWE the animal as much care as you can give it, and if that is impossible, a quick and relatively painless death. But imagining a magical retirement fairy will show up and care for your arthritic 30 year old Cushings mare who requires expensive supplements to be pasture sound is unforgivably stupid.

    IRRESPONSIBILITY and DENIAL on the part of the owners of many aged / unsound beasties is what is being criticized.
    Thanks for a great post. Succinctly stated!
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysandbays View Post
    Perhaps it escaped your notice that the horse's OWNER was not posting here? Had that been the case, I would have told HER (HIM?) to take the damn thing out and shoot it. However, unlike some shit pit denizens, I try to avoid stabbing people in the back when they are not present to defend themselves.
    So instead, let's kick the dog, just 'cause it's there.



  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori T View Post
    I run a rescue.
    I am getting beseiged by calls from people who no longer want their retired horse because it cannot be ridden.
    Todays call was from someone with a stallion in his mid 20's who cannot be ridden and won't keep the weight on. Seems he is so bad, the neighbors keep reporting her.
    I told her that even in good times, no one wants to take on a pasture pet that is in bad health and is a stallion to boot.
    I told her she needs to do the right thing and euthanize him rather than risk him going to an unscrupulous person that turns around and sends him to slaughter.
    Why do people think that it is ok to pass their problems on to someone else rather than take responsibility for it themself?
    So Lori...was she shocked? Horrified? Indignent at your suggestion (I'm sure that is spelled wrong) ?? Because those are the reactions that I get when I suggest that to folks. They would not DREAM of turning their poor precious PooPoo over to me to be killed by the nasty person who claims to love animals.....

    GAB, I understand what you meant but agree you would get more folks understanding by backing off some of your wording. I also understand by reading you often that isn't likely.

    I just have a feeling that the ultimate problem is NOT that the rescue won't take the horse and euth.... (most of us rescuers do have the ability to help with that...and cowgirljenn, don't you have a fund set up already?) its that the owner refuses to consider euthenasia....
    more readers probably have vaginas than have crock pots…

    Mod 1
    January 2014



  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chester's Mom View Post
    I just have a feeling that the ultimate problem is NOT that the rescue won't take the horse and euth.... (most of us rescuers do have the ability to help with that...and cowgirljenn, don't you have a fund set up already?) its that the owner refuses to consider euthenasia....
    No, we had voted to get it established - then the economy took a nosedive and our donations dried up. Horses are getting placed, but the adoption fees are LOW and aren't helping with expenses. So now we're going to have to wait until we turn things around....

    *sigh*

    We do, of course, have the funds to euthanize horses already in the rescue if they need it (say in the event of uncurable disease or illness, emergencies, etc).
    Visit us at Bluebonnet Equine Humane Society - www.bluebonnetequine.org

    Want to get involved in rescue or start your own? Check out How to Start a Horse Rescue - www.howtostartarescue.com



  7. #47
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    The points being made here are legitimate, but please dial back on the personal commentary/hostile tone all around that detracts from the discussion.

    Thanks,
    Mod 1



  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by DressageGeek "Ribbon Ho" View Post
    And to back up cowgirljenn and the OP, euthanasia isn't cheap, and neither is arranging for and disposing the body. It is unfair to make a rescue cough up the funds under this type of situation.
    Not only that, but try to find a vet that will euthanize a healthy horse, despite its age. It can be an unsound pasture ornament, but if it's generally healthy and still eating/drinking normally, most vets won't put it down. Which, of course, leaves the owner to either let it starve to death, or to call a rescue, like the OP's.

    There are lots of reasons I don't rescue, but this is a huge one.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lori B View Post
    GAB, folks are objecting to your vitriolic and angry tone, and the OP was making the case that if a person owns an aged and marginally sound animal that they can't care for, it is THEIR responsibility to attend to euthanizing it instead of handing it off to another person (rescue or whatever) and expecting an appropriately caring situation to materialize, when in fact what is going to happen is the animal is very likely to come to a frightening and painful end.

    Few if any of the posters on this thread are opposed to euthanasia; most are arguing that if the animal has worked for you, you OWE the animal as much care as you can give it, and if that is impossible, a quick and relatively painless death. But imagining a magical retirement fairy will show up and care for your arthritic 30 year old Cushings mare who requires expensive supplements to be pasture sound is unforgivably stupid.

    IRRESPONSIBILITY and DENIAL on the part of the owners of many aged / unsound beasties is what is being criticized.
    Beautifully put, Lori B. Bravo.

    And just ignore greysandbays. He/she/it is really just as offended as the rest of us at the insensitivity and callousness of this poor old guy's owner, but isn't smart enough to direct his/her/its vitriol at the real villain of the piece. I'm sure this isn't the first time you've dealt with small minds like his/her/its, and it won't be the last, if you rescue. Just ignore the troll, and it will go away.

    Best of luck in finding a humane resolution to this old stallion's predicament.
    In loving memory of Laura Jahnke.
    A life lived by example, done too soon.
    www.caringbridge.org/page/laurajahnke/



  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katie-Nicole View Post
    Greysandbays, you have to be one of the most spiteful people to post here. I think your repugnant replies are just a very pathetic vie for attention. I hope the shock factor you're seeking soon wears off when people are wise to the vile and vindictive nature of your posts.
    Well, now I'm offended. How dare you think I couldn't do a whole hell of a lot better than what I've been doing if I was going for "the shock factor".

    Really!

    Sadly, Life has some real doozies in store for you if you think my little efforts even approach being anything spectacular in way of being "spiteful" and "vile and vindictive".



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ESG View Post
    Not only that, but try to find a vet that will euthanize a healthy horse, despite its age. It can be an unsound pasture ornament, but if it's generally healthy and still eating/drinking normally, most vets won't put it down. Which, of course, leaves the owner to either let it starve to death, or to call a rescue, like the OP's.
    One more point in favor of a well-placed bullet. Gun owners outnumber DVM's hundreds of times over. If one is too squeamish to do the deed themselves, finding a competent stand-in would not be overly difficult.



  12. #52
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    I am a little bit confused by karma points and such-trying to understand what you mean.
    Rescues as with anything range from two extreme ends. On one is the professional rescue-more a business than a rescue-to them horses or getting used cars really make no difference. Just a nice way to make money. On the other you have really idealistic people who give everything they have to save the horses. Most probably range in between-which is probably the best category-you have the heart and the right reasoning and connectedness to the mundane things in life. The proper balance.
    This is really no different than real life. If the money and the private jets were taken out of the equation, how many megachurches do you think will be willing to continue? Even charities-all those folks who get six figure salaries -is it just a job or do they love what they are doing-nothing wrong with that -it is just life and you see a bunch you get jaded. But that does not mean that they are not doing any good or that there are no people who wish to genuinely help...
    From what the OP posted it certainly looks like she was just ranting about the kind of folks who want to dump at a rescue. it is almost like a take it granted attitude that somebodyelse will take care of my problem. Here I had a horse , bred a few , can't take care no more so instead of looking around,planning and figuring out what to do, they just want to dump it on the rescue. Now there are folks who wish to play hero-chasing news cameras, playing the saint-but that is there everywhere. How many religious folks who made millions have been exposed to be something other than what they preach? That does not make the whole religion bad-just your judgement-you grow up and realize -Hmm just because somebody has a title or post or religious title-doesn't mean that they are smart or spiritual or have any worthwile skills. It just is and you pick and choose based on the individual and situation....
    So just my thought-rescuses just like everything else in life run the gamut-not everybody is in it for the horses and not everybody is in it for the money and being a hero either...
    The OP brought up a point which I think is valid-you have a horse for years and if you know something unavoidable is coming and your horse is "worthless' in the market and is surely going to auction as nobody wants it-I think the least you can do is give the best to the horse, pamper it and euthanize it...I have seen a horse get shot and all it took was a few seconds-they still had to get the renderer and to me I really appreciated the guy who did it. The horse was really old, just getting worse and worse and painful and nothing he could do about it. He didn't go to some rescue and ask about offloading the horse-he took care of the horse till the end and at some point decided enough was enough and let him go..I don't think anybody objects to that. Just not stepping up to the plate and accepting your responsibility...



  13. #53

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    I hear you! I have an older Quarter Horse gelding that has heaves and so is semi-retired. I've owned him since he was 7 (he's 19 now) and I will own him till his dying day. When he is no longer able to be comfortable, I will euthanize him.

    I also took in a rescue mare in May of this year. Didn't really plan on keeping her, just rehabbing her. I finally have her to the point that I felt comfortable rehoming her. Found the perfect home for her, but she went completely lame a day later. I called the people up and told them (they wanted something that would go over fences etc so obviously she wouldn't work for them). I refunded their money, had a vet out to do xrays, and pretty much have decided she will stay here, PERIOD. I will not rehome a mare out that has lameness issues. I will not let her end up God knows where after she has been through SO MUCH. I won't try to pawn her off as a "broodmare". I will retire her here. If she can be ridden, and the xrays don't show anything serious, well then that will just be icing on the cake.

    So if I end up with two pasture puffs here and nothing to ride, oh well! I will ride someone else's horse whose owner is too busy to ride..or not at all! It really irks me when people try to pawn off horses that are no longer "usable" to them.
    Horses are the way into a woman's heart!



  14. #54
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    You can still learn a lot from horses, on the ground.

    I didn't ride any of Lori's (Sunkissed Acres) horses, when I was the last week. But you learn a LOT. And much of what you learn is how magnanimous and tolerant horses can be even after being abused and mistreated. they are much better at forgiveness than I am.
    www.specialhorses.org
    a 501(c)3 organization helping 501(c)3 equine rescues




  15. #55
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    I will not address anymore rude comments from GandB, other than to ask her if I have somehow offended her in this or another life?

    I am a small rescue..I do what I can. I own 5 of my own that my daughters and I either compete or have as expensive lawn ornaments...I am eternally indebted to the 2 retired ones for taking care of my daughter's.
    We started Heart Land because a 33 year old mare was being starved and no one was getting results..this was going on for years. The excuse was she was old. Well, a year later, she has regained over 250 pounds...amazing what food can do for a horse!
    Every horse we have rescued so far have been old and unsound. They have been seized. We have rescues in our area who do the slaughter bound, who pick up CL $100 bargains, etc. We decided to focus on seized horses because 1) we can't afford to take in every horse in need and 2) in Central Florida, especially Orange county, the officials don't want to seize them unless there is a place for them to go to...we provide that place.
    Every horse we have adopted out to date I given away..I don't charge an adoption fee on a pasture companion..I would rather the adoptee use the money towards their new horse. Right now we are trying to get a horse (and goats) out of hell that the officials would rather do nothing about and enroute to do a check up on the horse, we discovered 20 starving TB's..all about a 2 or 3, so now have to try and get them helped.
    I have gone back to work to help support my rescues, as I couldn't expect my husband to support them. I don't do this for the glory. I wish I didn't have to do this, but I am doing it because someone has to.
    As for why I posted this thread in the first place (which I now regret doing), it was to vent. This particular person will continue looking for a place to take her horse off her hands so she doesn't have to deal with it. She thanked me for explaining the situation to her, but moved on and what I told her probably didn't sink in. Yes, I would love to take in every unwanted horse, especially the senior citizens who are now abandoned because their only crime is that after years of serving their owners, they are now old and crippled and are now being disposed of like a piece of trash. If I ever win the lottery, you bet the first thing I do is buy alot of land and start taking them all in! Until then, yes, I have to choose, because I also have to pay for horses I own, put food on the dinner table and I have 2 kids in college and one more to go.
    Lori T
    www.calypsofarmeventers.blogspot.com
    www.facebook.com/LTEquine for product updates on the lines I rep



  16. #56
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    Ignore the detractors, LoriT. I've notice that the same rescue-bashers are also pro-slaughter because they'd rather see horses suffer than the "animal rights" movement get a victory in passing the transport ban. They have a beef with anyone that they perceive as earning compassionate care for horses (because god forbid that someday they won't be allowed to do exactly whatever they choose with their animals, you know it's such a slippery slope). Shhhh, don't let the word get out that horses feel pain. So of course you're evil you're one of "those" people!!
    \"Non-violence never solved anything.\" C. Montgomery Burns




  17. #57
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    Perhaps someone can tell me what is appropriate. I have 2 20 year Arabian geldings. Both are sound, very healthy and trained. Ufortunately, I am in the advanced stages of Paejunsons Disease. My farm is for sale. I have crawled out to feed them Thet are currently on 2e/7 turnout so I don't need to clean stalls. If the farm sells, I will need to make a decision regarding them.
    i love them so much and can't stand the thought if them ending up in slaughter. Do I put them down?



  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MandyVA View Post
    Ignore the detractors, LoriT. I've notice that the same rescue-bashers are also pro-slaughter because they'd rather see horses suffer than the "animal rights" movement get a victory in passing the transport ban. They have a beef with anyone that they perceive as earning compassionate care for horses (because god forbid that someday they won't be allowed to do exactly whatever they choose with their animals, you know it's such a slippery slope). Shhhh, don't let the word get out that horses feel pain. So of course you're evil you're one of "those" people!!

    I doubt this was directed at me as I did not present my semi-opposing view with vitriol.

    That said. Just because someone is pro slaughter and animal welfare and not anti slaughter and pro animal rights does not mean that they do not wish the best for horses.

    It does not mean that they would send THEIR geriatrics down the line.

    It does not mean that THEY are irresponsible owners.

    I take some offense to the quoted post because while I do think that rescues need to think more big picture and less "emotionally", I support a rescue. And I didn't dump my gelding. I kept him as happy and healthy and pain free as I could for several years past his "usefulness" and gave him a peaceful ending. Might as well have thrown hundred dollar bills out the window at speed on that one. But he served me well and I OWED him.

    I'm not asking for "karma" points either. I just did what I thought was right.

    But on the flip side, I think it's a heck of a lot more humane to offer an option for those horses whose owners simply REFUSE to do the right thing IF we're given and option AND the finances are there--whether by charging a fee to drop off or by fundraising.

    I don't have a beef with anyone who is compassionate. I don't have a beef with anyone who is doing what they think is right with the time, energy, money and information they have.

    But I DO think that if you're truly interested in what is right for the horse, then rescues are going to have to start gearing up for euth and disposal as well as viable rehab/resale projects.
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysandbays View Post
    Nonsense. A properly placed bullet is the epitome of "humane" euthanasia. It is immediate, it is inexpensive, and it does not turn the carcass into a toxic waste dump. If all you have to give up to get that is the warm and fuzzies of some sissy, it's a good deal all around.
    Wow....anyone else feel the need for a jacket about now?

    I have a 24 Tb who is still going strong.....he has a forever home, I'll never give him up...he has earned his retirement.

    And with posts like these....my 7 year old mare ain't going anywhere either. I trust very few people when it comes to animal welfare.



  20. #60
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    dalpal, why would you quote GandB on that point. No one's arguing the humanity of a bullet vs. lethal injection. I myself have been put into the situation of having to use a gun on one of my horses. She was an aged mare who had cancer. She had a tumor with arterial blood flow that burst in her throat. We thought she might have had an esophogeal abcess and were treating here accordingly. We got our diagnosis when she went down. I didn't have much option. I could have called a vet, but she would have bled out and drowned in her own blood by the time a vet came out. The bullet was our only option and if faced with the same scenario, I would grab the gun in a heartbeat. When I put my aged stallion down who was having seizures, my vet brought a gun in the event that it was too dangerous for us to do lethal injection. The end results are the same, and I didn't see any more stress between the gunshot or the lethal injection. Vets are bound by regulations in the control and administration of the euthanasia solution and the costs to obtain it are high. I know that around here, the average euthanasia is about $125 and that's not inclusive of the call charge. And then there's disposal issues. I'm very lucky to have a neighbor with a backhoe and he charges me $20 for a hole, but most aren't so blessed. $300 wouldn't be unlikely, and my friend paid $450 to a rendering company for an aged (30+) blind, skinny gelding that "came with the house" when they bought it. I can understand the financial strain euthanasia can place on someone, but if it's a choice of death by bullet or let the horse suffer, I'd choose the bullet. It's all about doing right by the horse, whatever the means it takes to get there. I wish our society weren't so death-phobic and continuing to view everything through rose colored glasses. There's a romanticism and a love-affair with the horse and it prevents a lot of people from acting responsibly. People need to stop breeding horses that have no potential, owners need to realize their horse's future prospects and act accordingly. The lame 20+ year old broodie who's thin, never saddle-broke and unremarkably bred, don't pawn her off on someone. If you choose not to maintain her retirement, do her a favor and put her down. Why stress the old girl by kicking her to the curb? LoriT and anyone else who is in rescue, whether professionally or privately can only do what they can. They can't continue to be responsible for horses if it would mean them being irresponsible to the horses currently in their care or taking away from their home and family. We all do what we can for our horses and others. There's no one here that really doesn't care about any horse's well-being, but we have to pick and choose our battles responsibly. A sick, thin 20 year old stallion just isn't that fight. I wish god-speed to the old boy. I loved my old man to the ends of the earth and was thankful that I was able to be with him for his final days. Hopefully this guys owners will appreciate the advice and offer him the same.



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