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  1. #201
    Join Date
    Dec. 27, 2005
    Location
    Dela-where?
    Posts
    332

    Default Why pro rides?

    Because I have a 5 year old OTTB who last raced in October 2007. Although his temperment is good, and I can hack him and do little jumps with him in a lesson situation, I am not confident that I could fully train him. Plus, direct quote from trainer "you are not a good enough rider to train this horse". So, he stays on training board until we are able to go to a horse show and turn in respectable rounds in an appropriate division.
    Debbie



  2. #202
    Join Date
    Feb. 18, 2007
    Location
    Missouri
    Posts
    854

    Default

    Because:
    No one person can know everything. I know I don't and have no problem admitting it. Why wouldn't I take advantage of my trainers knowledge?
    I always learn something when I watch her ride. I truly enjoy watching my horse perform for someone else.
    She can 'nip things in the bud' when needed.
    Also, we have a wonderful relationship and she really enjoys ridiing him. I like to see her get off with that big smile on her face as she says "That was really fun!"
    I am a re-rider and know my limitations, both physically and mentally. She normally rides him once a week and sometimes schools him at shows. He is still fairly green, so it keeps us both moving forward.
    I understand there will always be those that have the trainer do all the work, and then they take all the 'glory'. I hope they enjoy that hollow victory.



  3. #203
    Join Date
    Mar. 24, 2004
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    603

    Default

    To come at it from the other side, I put training rides on hubby's jumper every week or so because while hubby knows he should be 'going straight' and 'have a good canter,' he needs to learn what those two things really feel like, as opposed to galloping pell-mell after the hounds. So I get Mr. Horse going straight and cantering with a bit of bounce, and hubby has a couple of great rides, then spends the rest of the week trying to get back to that place.

    Each time I hop on Mr. Horse, he's a little closer to straight and his canter is a little closer to good, so this process is working for us! [Especially since my giving hubby actual lessons is a baaaddddd idea <G>... so I figure I'll teach him via Mr. Horse and maybe he won't notice.]



  4. #204
    Join Date
    Feb. 28, 2006
    Location
    The rocky part of KY
    Posts
    9,473

    Default

    Thoughts and reasonings, eh?

    Well, I am older and I don't have the time or the expertise to "make" a nice horse. My trainer is a pro for the same reason and in the same way as my mechanic, who keeps my car runnng smoothly so I can enjoy a drive. Sure I can fix a flat and work on older engines, but I would rather not. I do want to be a part of my horse's educational process though, just as I do for my DD, so I think of a "pro ride" as a tutorial for the horse that I can build on or learn from as well.
    Courageous Weenie Eventer Wannabe
    Incredible Invisible



  5. #205
    Join Date
    Jan. 17, 2006
    Location
    Arygle, Texas
    Posts
    1,190

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ReSomething View Post
    Thoughts and reasonings, eh?

    Well, I am older and I don't have the time or the expertise to "make" a nice horse. My trainer is a pro for the same reason and in the same way as my mechanic, who keeps my car runnng smoothly so I can enjoy a drive. Sure I can fix a flat and work on older engines, but I would rather not. I do want to be a part of my horse's educational process though, just as I do for my DD, so I think of a "pro ride" as a tutorial for the horse that I can build on or learn from as well.

    GREAT explaination . Ditto.



  6. #206
    Join Date
    Jun. 28, 2007
    Posts
    34

    Default

    My trainers ride when i cant fix a problem myself or if i am having a problem getting something that they are trying to teach me. I really do like to try myself but there is sometimes the ammie ride just wont do and a pro needs to be on instead. And it is nice to have an ammie horse that has all the bells and whistles in tune, to make riding a little more fun and to feel that you are actually doing something right.



  7. #207
    Join Date
    Dec. 13, 2005
    Location
    Strasburg, PA "Just west of Paradise"
    Posts
    3,969

    Default

    I've been reading alot on here about people paying trainers to ride their horses. Why?
    If they are paying for their horse to be trained expect it to be ridden. It might even get ridden by more then the trainer.
    "Have a Coke and a Smile"



  8. #208
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2005
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    I just couldn't see spending all my definatly hard earned money on something I couldn't use and enjoy myself. It would be a waste to me.
    Unfortunately the feelings expressed here are a major cause of horses being ruined. The whole idea of possession/ego trumping the well being of the horse is bad practice. If I had a dollar for every horse that had to be taken back to square one because of an owner/rider and their beliefs, Bill gates and I would hanging out in the same circles.

    Linda Allen wrote an article that made an analogy between training horses and the education of children, loosely, an idea which has always made a lot of sense to me. I have always considered my horses like children, and like my children I am not fully capable of providing absolutely everything they need. I am not a doctor or an educator or a member of the many other professions that I rely on to raise my children to be happy, healthy, capable individuals. Yet they will always be my children, and the joy I receive from my "investment" is that they become all they can be, and that they are good decent people in the end. The same goes for my horses, I want them to be happy, healthy, and achieve their potential, and if that means I need to put another pro in the saddle to accomplish that goal then it will happen without question. I do not believe it diminishes my part in the development of my horses simply because someone else "helped". I could not possibly do what I do with horses without a ton of help, at every stage, and every level, and with every aspect of their development.

    Those individuals who understand the importance of a trainer, and employ them are simply practicing good horsemanship, period.



  9. #209
    Join Date
    Jul. 24, 2008
    Posts
    3,216

    Default

    I just bought a 3yr old and I expect I will have my trainer ride him for me occasionally (maybe 2x per month?). I don't show, but I do ride about 5-6 days per week. I expect this new horse will be a bit of a handful sometimes, and I'm not sure if I want to ride through all the rough patches like I did with my last horse (who I brought along from a 2yr old and sold when he was 6). If I could afford to have him ridden by my trainer once per week and have a lesson myself once per week, I would do that.

    I have no problem with trainers riding horses right before the owners get on in the show ring, but I don't show... Nothing will ever be completely equal in the ring, why bother getting upset over that?

    Everyone has their own goals, I respect that, and it's really none of my business. One person rides to bring along a particular horse, great! Another rides several horses to bring along him/herself as a rider? Great! Another prefers to watch her fancy pet go beautifully under the trainer? Great! I ride 5-6 days per week, spend 2-3 hours per day at the barn after work, keep my horse in show condition (clipped and pulled), clean tack religiously, take regular lessons and work hard to be a better rider/horseperson - just because this is what I like to do!

    Just go out and enjoy your own horse -- don't worry about what everyone else is doing!



  10. #210
    Join Date
    Jun. 21, 2001
    Location
    Mountain West
    Posts
    650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash44 View Post
    In what other sports do the competitors pay someone else to practice for them, and still expect top prizes?
    Jockeys do not ride thier horses in their daily workouts.

    NASCAR drivers do not to all of the mechanical work on their cars. Though I love the image of a driver hopping out to change all of his tires and refuel the car during a pit stop. All by himself or herself.

    Professional quarterbacks do not stand by the side of the field managing the practice while their receivers and linebackers are training.

    Guest conductors may step on the podium after only a few hours rehersal with an orchestra that another conductor has spent 100's of hours working into a well-oiled machine.

    Do the pros who lend thier time and expertiese deserve recognition for the sucess of their students, absolutely, but no one would suggest that the accomplishments of these teams are any less significant simply because the are not a result of the efforts of any one individual.



  11. #211
    Join Date
    Jul. 16, 2003
    Posts
    2,987

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauwse View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    I just couldn't see spending all my definatly hard earned money on something I couldn't use and enjoy myself. It would be a waste to me.
    The whole idea of possession/ego trumping the well being of the horse is bad practice...Those individuals who understand the importance of a trainer, and employ them are simply practicing good horsemanship, period.
    I didn't take that message from it at all! I very much support having a trainer ride occasionally/as needed. Personally, I wouldn't want to buy a horse if it needed to be in full training or wasn't ready to ride yet. I don't have the money to have multiple horses, or the expertise to bring along a greenie, even with some help from a trainer. I'd have much more fun, and be safer, on an appropriate horse who is trained already. Getting an occasional ride from the trainer to tune the horse up is very different from getting one who needs full training!
    Stay me with coffee, comfort me with chocolate, for I am sick of love.



  12. #212
    Join Date
    Jul. 9, 2008
    Posts
    724

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hauwse View Post
    Unfortunately the feelings expressed here are a major cause of horses being ruined. The whole idea of possession/ego trumping the well being of the horse is bad practice. If I had a dollar for every horse that had to be taken back to square one because of an owner/rider and their beliefs, Bill gates and I would hanging out in the same circles.
    So because I won't pay for someone else to ride my horse I am unable to train my own horse, have different hippie beliefs then any 'trainer' and my horse is going to be ruined?

    I don't think so.



  13. #213
    Join Date
    Dec. 25, 2005
    Location
    Cazenovia, NY
    Posts
    1,080

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    So because I won't pay for someone else to ride my horse I am unable to train my own horse, have different hippie beliefs then any 'trainer' and my horse is going to be ruined?

    I don't think so.
    The point is simply that regardless of who you are, what your beliefs, you do an injustice to yourself and your horse when you start believing that you can do it all on your own.

    No one I know involved with horses has the capability to live in a vacuum, whether it be a vet, a Ferrier, or a trainer, you need help and support from pros. You may think you can do it alone, and you may even try, but in general the results are going to be poor, and unfortunately it is the horse that generally ends up on the short end of that stick.

    A trainer putting saddle time in on your horse is just an extension of what a trainer does on the ground. There are a zillion reasons why a trainer may want/need to get in the saddle, all of them legitimate, and all of them beneficial to your horse and you.

    The bottom line is that it takes very little to set back a horse, and the further they progress in development the more likely it is that one error is going to determine the parameters of their development.

    It is the tree falling in the woods question... while you may think that you have done a great job with your horse, and your horse may be able to answer many of the questions you ask of him, how many questions do you think your horse would get right if GM got in the saddle? That in itself may be a big test for most horses, but it is the question, what is your horse failing to achieve because of lack of expertise?

    A good trainer can help your horse to understand the language and to extend that communication between the horse and the rider, that is why the good ones are the good ones, they have knowledge and skills we don't....yet, their job is to facilitate our learning and the horses learning and to enable us to reach "that" level through whatever means possible, and that may include getting on your horse every now and again to achieve that, and it may mean doing the same to save the rider from themselves, and sometimes the horse from the rider.

    There is no definitive answer, but common sense indicates that if you employ a trainer to train you, you probably are not BM, MW, MMB, LB or any of today’s great riders/trainers/developers at this point in time, and that if someone you rely on to help you learn thinks that your horse needs help beyond your capability you may well be wise to pack all the ego/possession BS in a bag, get over yourself, and listen, for your sake and your horses sake, even if it cost a few dollars.



  14. #214
    Join Date
    Nov. 12, 2006
    Location
    North East
    Posts
    1,703

    Default

    i was active trainer rode clients horses and ponies at shows to train and prep the ponies the kids were not scared if i went 1st ,i petitioned 4 sch pony div before they had it a rated in va



  15. #215
    Join Date
    Oct. 5, 1999
    Location
    A place called vertigo
    Posts
    12,482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooner View Post
    Jockeys do not ride thier horses in their daily workouts.

    IT TAKES YEARS OF RIDING TO BECOME A JOCKEY, AND THEY DO WORK HORSES IN THE MORNINGS. THEY RIDE TOO MANY HORSES IN RACES PER WEEK TO POSSIBLY GALLOP EACH HORSE EVERY DAY.

    NASCAR drivers do not to all of the mechanical work on their cars. Though I love the image of a driver hopping out to change all of his tires and refuel the car during a pit stop. All by himself or herself.

    SURE, JUST LIKE ALL RIDERS CAN SHOE A HORSE AND FIX THE TRACTOR AND BUILD JUMPS AND MUCK THE ENTIRE BARN EVERY DAY. I GUARANTEE YOU NASCAR DRIVERS DRIVE.

    Professional quarterbacks do not stand by the side of the field managing the practice while their receivers and linebackers are training.

    GOOD ANALOGY. HOWEVER, PROFESSIONAL QBS PROBABLY DO NOT SKIP MANY PRACTICES, OR HAVE THE COACH PRACTICE FOR THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE AFRAID OF MESSING UP THE REST OF THE TEAM WHICH IS RUNNING THE PLAY PERFECTLY.

    Guest conductors may step on the podium after only a few hours rehersal with an orchestra that another conductor has spent 100's of hours working into a well-oiled machine.

    ISN'T THAT WHAT A "GUEST" CONDUCTOR IS SUPPOSED TO DO?

    Do the pros who lend thier time and expertiese deserve recognition for the sucess of their students, absolutely, but no one would suggest that the accomplishments of these teams are any less significant simply because the are not a result of the efforts of any one individual.

    I DON'T THINK ANYONE HAS MADE THAT SUGGESTION.
    .



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