[CAJumper]

You posted pictures of your horse and his "roundness" o/f and Beverly felt that A.) perhaps it was the use of a restricted release B.) It was "manufactured" roundness which you disagreed with both.

Ummm....no, I don't believe that's at all what RugBug said. As a matter of fact, she said that her horse was "not the roundest jumper in the world". The photo was never posted as an example of how the horse is/is not jumping, it was posted (humorously and generously, I might add!) to show an example of ducking without losing leg position over a fence.

You'd be hardpressed to find alot of old showhunter pics that show the level of "roundness" you see in the front end of today's show hunters.

Actually, in another thread earlier this year comparing hunters of today vs. hunters of years past, someone pointed out that older photos were taken at a very different point in the jump than they are today. Today's show photos tend to be early in the jump, when the horse is at their roundest and their front end tightest. Older photos are later in the jump, when the hind end has come up (and therefore flatted out the horse's body a bit) and the front end is beginning to unfold. It was a really neat comparison, and someone was able to post a series of older photos that showed the same horse over the same jump at different points in the fence. (Sorry, wish I remembered who that was and/or had a link to the thread - it was good stuff!)

The style isn't exactly the same, but it's a lot closer than people who are just looking at still photos would think.

[LookinSouth]

Ummm....no, I don't believe that's at all what RugBug said. As a matter of fact, she said that her horse was "not the roundest jumper in the world". The photo was never posted as an example of how the horse is/is not jumping, it was posted (humorously and generously, I might add!) to show an example of ducking without losing leg position over a fence.
.

Reading for comprehension are we??

I don't recall ever stating that she posted the pics to demonstrate his roundness as exemplary.

I clearly understand WHY the pics were posted. The discussion ENDED UP turning into an examination of his form o/f. Beverly thought his form was the result of the restricted crest release and appeared to be "manufactured" round. At that point Rug Bug went on to say you CANNOT manufacture round (which I agree with). There was also some comparison of Rug Bug's horse with the pics Beverly posted which is where I added the bit about the difference in pace.

However, your point about the difference in when the photos were taken then versus now is also quite valid and I agree completely. Which would also explain why it is rare to see old photos with round, tight front ends.

[RugBug]

Holy crap...I've even forgotten why I posted those pictures.

Yes, it was to illustrate that you can duck without losing your leg.

Then, it turned into a discussion about a crest release causing a round jump ()...maybe because I said Beverly's horses weren't really jumping very round and that my bay, while not the best jumper, is rounder than both () and then she said it was because of my release () to which I said it's his natural carriage (), to which she wanted to see evidence that it wasn't my release (), to which I posted more pictures with a loose rein () to which we had to agree to disagree () to which LIS said the horse wasn't round on the flat ()to which I said I was never implying he was round on the flat in that picture (), to which there was confusion and a finally a post I could agree with. ()

BOTH CAJumper and LIS (except for the whole flat thing...Show's offended, but I won't tell him) were right....

[RAyers]

The difference between Eventers and Hunters is that the conversation degrades into how what why and where the release, leg is and how round the horse is over the fences in the hunters. Eventers are just concerned if the cooler has beer.

Reed

[JSwan]

The difference between Eventers and Hunters is that the conversation degrades into how what why and where the release, leg is and how round the horse is over the fences in the hunters. Eventers are just concerned if the cooler has beer.

Reed

'Nuff said. Brilliant!

[DMK]

The difference between Eventers and Hunters is that the conversation degrades into how what why and where the release, leg is and how round the horse is over the fences in the hunters. Eventers are just concerned if the cooler has beer.

Reed

It pretty much goes without saying that the H/J people know the cooler has beer. And wine. It's really just a matter of "did someone remember to bring the limes for the corona?" That's why we have time to talk about shit like this.

[CAJumper]

It pretty much goes without saying that the H/J people know the cooler has beer. And wine. It's really just a matter of "did someone remember to bring the limes for the corona?" That's why we have time to talk about shit like this.

[LookinSouth]

Holy crap...I've even forgotten why I posted those pictures.

Yes, it was to illustrate that you can duck without losing your leg.

Then, it turned into a discussion about a crest release causing a round jump ()...maybe because I said Beverly's horses weren't really jumping very round and that my bay, while not the best jumper, is rounder than both () and then she said it was because of my release () to which I said it's his natural carriage (), to which she wanted to see evidence that it wasn't my release (), to which I posted more pictures with a loose rein () to which we had to agree to disagree () to which LIS said the horse wasn't round on the flat ()to which I said I was never implying he was round on the flat in that picture), to which there was confusion and a finally a post I could agree with. ()

BOTH CAJumper and LIS (except for the whole flat thing...Show's offended, but I won't tell him) were right....

Well all I know is that's by far the most comical use of the smiley's I've seen yet!

[Beverley]

Well all I know is that's by far the most comical use of the smiley's I've seen yet!

I agree, brilliant. Lookin South, yes, you very well articulated what I was trying to say. Rug Bug, yes, we did start out talkin' 'bout rider position and wandered a bit. I do need to comment that you really got a bit more defensive than you needed to- I was not picking on you, or your horse, just making general observations with the pictures we had at hand. For example, I called MY horse a dressage reject, not yours!. Lighten up! Here, have some more smilies!

Yes, valid point about 'when' in the jump pics are taken.

Yes, I still believe that 'in general' crest release as practiced today inhibits what I consider to be ideal form for a horse over fences, whether in jumpers or hunters.

Reed, may I please have a beer?

[dogchushu]

It pretty much goes without saying that the H/J people know the cooler has beer. And wine. It's really just a matter of "did someone remember to bring the limes for the corona?" That's why we have time to talk about shit like this.

I thought our grooms were supposed to hand us a beer as we left the ring and dumped our horses on them. Or am I thinking of the DQs?

[DMK]

silly girl, we dump the horse with the groom, hop in the trainer's golf cart, whereupon he plies us with the alcohol so we can "fairly" consider the um, strongly worded "suggestion" to purchase our next seeing eye dog, er, hunter who is (coincidentally!) just clearing quarantine.

But sometimes they forget the limes. It is indeed a tragedy.