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  1. #21
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    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Listen to the voice of experience ( that would be Thomas)
    Back away from the keyboard.
    Figure out why your butt is electric with a good coach so you can control the voltage.
    And don't try to "help" anyone else until you do.

    Actually, hang it all.
    Continue to do exactly what you are doing and do more of it.
    And next time you're in emerg with your fractures or somebody else's, I have a friend who'd like to buy your grey horse before you teach him how to really bolt.
    "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF



  2. #22
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Behind the Orange Curtain
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    Dang, the trolls are out. Oh, well, my post was nice while it lasted. I must've forgotten to pay my toll at the troll bridge.



  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep. 25, 2005
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    The Land of the Frozen
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    Let the teenager find her own ride. It's not worth the hassle or the risk. If your horse kills a 10 year old kid, you could find yourself in a legal nightmare that makes Kujo and the Amityville Horror look like a newborn puppy at a bed and breakfast on the beach.



  4. #24
    Join Date
    Oct. 2, 2007
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    Beyond the pale.
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    *snerk*

    Better an infrequent poster that can ride, than a keyboard jockey.

    being totally serious.
    Listen to Thom.

    Or not.

    Your post was not "nice". The story is a disaster from start to finish and you are lucky to be able to laugh at it instead of paying some fancy lawyer to defend your actions in court or some fancy doctor to fix what you break.
    "The Threat of Internet Ignorance: ... we are witnessing the rise of an age of equestrian disinformation, one where a trusting public can graze on nonsense packaged to look like fact."-LRG-AF



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jul. 20, 2004
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    43

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    There's no doubt that the QH is too much for her. That's why she is working with a trainer and not riding him out anymore.

    He is a young, energetic, and big boy. I wouldn't put my daughter on him (mine is only 10, though).

    But my pony is 10 and my 8 year old rides him!

    Does this look like a face that would bolt on anyone?

    (don't answer that- I know, there's always been cranky pony hiding in there and was just waiting to find a teenager to vent it on!)
    http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...eylightash.jpg
    Actually, yes, in that photo, IMO, your (admittedly very cute) pony does look like he could be a hot and sensitive ride.

    From what you're saying, it sounds as though the poor teenager is overmounted on her own horse, and is probably overmounted on your pony as well. Her self-confidence is probably taking a beating, especially if you are pointing out that your pony is a safe packer with everyone but her. IMHO, teenager needs to be put in a safer, more confidence-building situation (with a horse she can trust, and a trainer that will see that she gets a good foundation), and her own mom might not realize or understand this.

    At your barn, is there someone there who can act as an advisor - someone with many years of quality experience? Perhaps the barn owner?



  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Behind the Orange Curtain
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    Quote Originally Posted by Auventera Two View Post
    Let the teenager find her own ride. It's not worth the hassle or the risk. If your horse kills a 10 year old kid, you could find yourself in a legal nightmare that makes Kujo and the Amityville Horror look like a newborn puppy at a bed and breakfast on the beach.
    The 10 year old is mine



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
    Location
    MA
    Posts
    12,820

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    Dang, the trolls are out. Oh, well, my post was nice while it lasted. I must've forgotten to pay my toll at the troll bridge.
    Troll, schmoll.
    Like it or not, there seems to be a consistent theme here that you don't have the experience or judgment to be safely doing what you propose to do.
    Take it or leave it.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  8. #28
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Seeing so many names on my ignore list pop up on my thread tells me that the TMP crowd has arrived.

    Wish they'd all crawl back in their manure pile and stink up the place somewhere else.



  9. #29
    Join Date
    May. 3, 2006
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    11,568

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post
    Dang, the trolls are out. Oh, well, my post was nice while it lasted. I must've forgotten to pay my toll at the troll bridge.
    Now I think a troll is someone who posts controversial or irrelevant messages in an online community to inflame a response.

    I'm seriously wondering who you're accusing of trolling as I see no evidence of it in any of the replies.

    Unless of course you're looking in the mirror and are pontificating about what you see. Furthermore you may have forgotten that a bulletin board is an internet service that enables discussion groups.

    So just to remind you: when someone posts and asks questions or is clearly confused, folks will reply. Its what happens on bulletin boards!

    Perhaps you might be better suited to a blog where you can happily publish your thoughts and experience at will and with no interference from anyone who might know more or better or have different opinion.



  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2003
    Location
    NorthEast
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    24,668

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    I didn't see a troll either. The three who disagreed with your lending your horse out to the teen aren't trolls, they just disagreed with the situation. If we don't like the (very apt) opinion it doesn't make the person posting it a troll.
    Please protect yourself legally by not lending out your ride unless the girl's pro trainer is supervising. A green young rider on a non-push button horse being supervised by another green rider is a recipe for a serious injury. The child's mother being a friend doesn't stop that from happening...if the child is hurt their insurance company will come after you and the barn without the consent of the carrier/your friend.
    At best, your horse will most likely pick up bad habits.
    You jump in the saddle,
    Hold onto the bridle!
    Jump in the line!
    ...Belefonte



  11. #31
    Join Date
    Apr. 17, 2002
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    between the barn and the pond
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    14,495

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    Ambrey you lack the depth of skill and perception to see the answer to your own question.

    Don't put that teenager on your pony again. You want to be the good-egg that helped but you are going to get her hurt.

    Sweet horses that tolerate us don't need us to push their buttons and upset them or encourage them to hurt others. I have a total lamb of a horse on the ground that I don't trust anyone with but me. I respect his needs and his ways and that's the approach I'd encourage you to take with this pony of yours.

    Being snarky toward others with more experience who are only trying to help you and your friends stay out of trouble, proves your immaturity and inexperience, Ambrey. It does not prove how cool or above it all you think you are. Please be careful and don't get that girl hurt.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jun. 12, 2008
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    83

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    Teenager needs to sell the big, young, energetic QH and spend the money on lots of lessons and/or a schoolmaster. Let the big, young, energetic horse flourish in the hands of someone with experience and knowledge. Green plus green makes black and blue.

    I know this isn't the solution anyone wants to hear, but IMO it's the only one. It's unfair to both horse and rider to ask someone to "grow into" a horse that's too much for them if they don't already have the skill and confidence necessary to work with a big green horse.



  13. #33
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MistyBlue View Post
    Please protect yourself legally by not lending out your ride unless the girl's pro trainer is supervising. A green young rider on a non-push button horse being supervised by another green rider is a recipe for a serious injury.
    My gut really agrees with you about this particular situation. I'm going to have to consider this. I wish I wasn't the only person involved with any sense of caution!



  14. #34

    Default

    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambrey View Post


    I'm not a teacher, but I guess I have just figured this horse out and gotten used to his quirks. He hates to have you hanging on his mouth and will "go" if he feels leg on him, yet will slow and turn just from seat aids. I really adore him, I think he's awesome- but he scared me a little!
    QUOTE]
    ummmmm he sounds too broke for her....you will either have to dummy him down (which would be a shame) or tune her up
    Production Acres,Pro A Welsh Cobs
    I am one of the last 210,000 remaining full time farmers in America.We feed the others.



  15. #35
    Join Date
    Jun. 14, 2006
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    VA
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    11,372

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    I have (quite frequently) allowed different people (mostly novices) ride my one mare.

    I am truly blessed to own a horse who is quite happy to adapt to the rider on her back. If you know what you're doing, she's got lots of buttons and is happy to respond accordingly. If you need a kick pull pony, she'll do that too. Very adaptive, very forgiving. Great mount for just about anyone.

    Just last night in fact, my friend's 5 YO daughter rode the mare. Normally a very light and quick ride with an advanced rider, there was no way in HECK she was going to even CONSIDER trotting with the wee one on board in spite of the kid's persistent kicking and clucking. LOL

    Still, whenever I put someone on her, I explain the "buttons", her normal "expectations" for cues, leg, etc....and try to set the rider up with the knowledge of how to ride THIS horse.


    Conversely, my other mare? No way. Not a horse to stick someone on who isn't advanced and able to be very consistent and subtle. She is NOT forgiving and when you give conflicting cues or she gets confused, she gets very frustrated and it can create a dangerous situation. Mentally for her...physically for a rider.


    I think the first rule of thumb is to know your horse....and if your horse requires certain skills then you only put people on the horse who can ride at that level.

    It makes no sense to confuse a horse and risk injury to the rider.

    A horse who bolts or gets real nervous with a new rider is probably not the best choice of temporary mount for a novice...
    A good horseman doesn't have to tell anyone...the horse already knows.

    Might be a reason, never an excuse...



  16. #36
    Join Date
    Dec. 11, 2006
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    Cheesehead in Loudoun Co, VA
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    2,540

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    Troll, schmoll.
    Like it or not, there seems to be a consistent theme here that you don't have the experience or judgment to be safely doing what you propose to do.
    Take it or leave it.
    I couldn't agree more.

    I don't think I've ever posted to you, Ambrey, but I've read many stories that make me raise an eyebrow and wonder what the hell could have been going through your head at the time. You give me the impression that you are at the dangerous stage of horsemanship where you have some basic experience, but have not yet learned that there is so much more that you don't know and will never know.

    From experience, it's a very humbling moment when you realize that neither you nor your chosen trainer have all the answers. It's also a wonderful thing to have your mind opened to new possibilities, regardless of where they came from.

    As for your OP? The situation scares the hell out of me. If a rider is unable to control my horse outside a round pen, they have NO business whatsoever on his back, trainer or no trainer. If my horse has a history of taking off with riders, no one but me or the trainer has any business belongs on his back. Any other situation is an accident waiting to happen.

    But, you do what you want. It's your horse, your potential vet bills, your potential nightmares about the life that's changed forever by your lack of judgement. Go right ahead and ignore us. We're just stinky strangers on the internet. What could we possibly know?
    Last edited by HighFlyinBey++; Jul. 21, 2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: spelling error
    I'm not arguing, I'm just explaining why I'm right
    Violence doesn't end violence. It extends it. Break the cycle.



  17. #37
    Join Date
    Jun. 24, 2005
    Posts
    92

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    I hope you have adequate liability insurance to be doing what you're doing (most people don't, unless they're professional instructors/trainers). It sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

    Let the professionals help the teen learn to ride, on safe and appropriate horses. They have the experience to do it correctly (I hope). Does her trainer know you're doing this with the pony? Does he/she approve?

    BenNevis



  18. #38
    Join Date
    May. 9, 2008
    Location
    Johannesburg
    Posts
    518

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    I'm a South African Attorney and our legal system is different to yours, so I"m not sure if it applies, but I think it's worth mentioning that in some countries, there is a principle of "strict liability" if your animal harms another person / animal / somebody's property.

    In other words, if she is hurt by your horse, you are liable, even if you were not negligent. It's an archaic Roman remedy called the Pauperian action. Of course, if you WERE negligent, you would be liable under most systems.

    The bottom line is that you are possibly opening yourself up to litigation here, even with the best of intentions. You have already indicated that your horse bolted with this girl. Take it as a hint and back away.



  19. #39
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Behind the Orange Curtain
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    [quote=Tamara in TN;3376699]

    ummmmm he sounds too broke for her....you will either have to dummy him down (which would be a shame) or tune her up
    I think this is the case- he's not green, he's too sensitive. She actually does pretty well on her big young QH, but he is the opposite- kind of thick and bargy and strong (and a true bolter). She has experience with that type and with school horses, never with a super sensitive horse.

    The actual reason I posted this post was to ask whether this is a problem with the horse that should be fixed. I do/have known the answer to the unasked question (should I let her ride?) but I hate being the bad guy and I was outnumbered.

    I think I've decided he doesn't need to be fixed, just a rider mismatch. He does need to be desensitized to the leg a bit (because right now we can't do laterals at the walk, lol!) but I don't want to turn him into a school pony- he's great the way he is.



  20. #40
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    Jul. 27, 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaeleer View Post
    I'm a South African Attorney and our legal system is different to yours, so I"m not sure if it applies, but I think it's worth mentioning that in some countries, there is a principle of "strict liability" if your animal harms another person / animal / somebody's property.

    In other words, if she is hurt by your horse, you are liable, even if you were not negligent. It's an archaic Roman remedy called the Pauperian action. Of course, if you WERE negligent, you would be liable under most systems.

    The bottom line is that you are possibly opening yourself up to litigation here, even with the best of intentions. You have already indicated that your horse bolted with this girl. Take it as a hint and back away.
    No, I don't believe that's the case here, and I had already asked for a waiver. However, there IS a law in CA that a waiver doesn't waive rights in cases of negligence. And having seen the horse (not bolt, but also not stop- no idea what you want to call it) with her, it weighs heavy on my heart (even if they didn't sue, if she got hurt I'd feel awful).

    Bah. Now I'm going to feel bad no matter what I do.



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