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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct. 25, 2007
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    60

    Default Must a man remove his hat at the halt?

    I know this is probably a stupid question but I am hoping someone can help me. My son is going to NAYRC for eventing. He has a very tense horse. He typically removes his top hat for the salute-but is this required or is it permissable for him to leave it on and salute with such his arm?

    I am very curious about the rules if someone knows. Please don't speculate, I have alot of that all ready. Thank you for your help.
    Last edited by 3 Day Ranch; Jul. 20, 2008 at 04:52 AM. Reason: mistake



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov. 3, 2004
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    Default Go to USEF website and look under 2008 rule book

    Avoid speculation

    CHAPTER EV
    EVENTING DIVISION
    SUBCHAPTER EV-1 GENERAL RULES FOR ALL EVENTING COMPETITIONS
    EV101 Introduction
    1. GENERAL. An Eventing Competition includes one or more tests from the following
    branches of equitation: dressage, cross-country and jumping. The Federation and the
    USEA recognize three types of Eventing Competitions: Tests (Individual or Combined),
    Horse Trials, and Events (Two-Day or Three-Day).
    2. RESPONSIBILITY. A competitor is ultimately responsible for knowing these rules and
    complying with them. The appointment of a steward or official, whether or not provided for in these rules, does not absolve the competitor from such responsibility.
    3. CIRCUMSTANCES NOT COVERED IN THESE RULES.
    a. For any circumstances not specifically covered in these rules, reference should be made to one of the following publications of the FEI:
    (1) Rules for Three-Day Events
    (2) Rules for Dressage Events
    (3) Rules for Jumping Events
    ]b. Every eventuality cannot be provided for in these rules. In any unforeseen or exceptional
    circumstances it is the duty of the Ground Jury to make a decision in a sporting spirit, and to approach as nearly as possible the intention of these rules.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov. 1, 1999
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    Default

    In Dressage the rule is clear. Men must doff the hat, unless it is being worn with a harness then they salute the way women do.

    exception is military uniform.

    Congrats on getting to the YR's. Sounds like some practice at home will be needed. Suggest practice in tail coat and top hat since the movement of the salute might also be causing the tail of the coat to rub on the horses loin? A remote thought I know but we are dealing with a horse here and they can make a phantom out of a leaf.
    _\\\\]
    -- * > hoopoe

    www.meanderingwa.blogspot.com



  4. #4
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    Sep. 29, 2007
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    Default

    At least in dressage (I'm not expert in eventing), the rules for salute are in DR122 and state the man may either remove his hat, or may render the salute the same as does the lady rider. For safety's sake, I'd recommend using the "lady rider" method. FWIW, I think I see more and more men using that method - if you are wearing a SAFETY helmet, it is just about impossible to do otherwise (unbuckle, remove, salute, replace, rebuckle - by now the horse is jigging - and remember, you need to hang on to reins w/ one hand while rebuckling ).
    www.MysticOakRanch.com Friesian/Warmblood Crosses, the Ultimate Sporthorse
    Director, WTF Registry



  5. #5
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    Default

    Why not just wear a helmet and avoid the issue? Especially with a tense horse, seems logical



  6. #6
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    Aug. 17, 2002
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    Virginia
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    Talking

    The men still remove the helmet for the salute. ccording to a judge that I scribed for, the point is to hold the reins in one hand and to demonstrate enough control and submission to salute however briefly.
    BONNE CHANCE!!



  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Trying View Post
    The men still remove the helmet for the salute.
    Not if it's buckled on with a harness.
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  8. #8
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    Default

    If it's not buckled on, it's not really a helmet is it? Wouldn't that just be a hunt cap?



  9. #9
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    Default

    Viking helmets aren't buckled on. Or are they actually Viking hunt caps?
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  10. #10
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    Viking helmets aren't buckled on. Or are they actually Viking hunt caps?
    It depends on whether they are made of metal or black velvet.




  11. #11
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    I'm adding horns to my hunt cap. Then it will be a helmet! Imagine trotting down the center line wearing that! "Take THAT, Judgie!"
    Quote Originally Posted by Linny View Post
    Those martingales were so taut, you could play Ode to Joy on them with a comb



  12. #12
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by SillyHorse View Post
    I'm adding horns to my hunt cap. Then it will be a helmet! Imagine trotting down the center line wearing that! "Take THAT, Judgie!"
    And if you harness it on, you don't need to take it off!

    But if you fall, those horns might hurt...



  13. #13
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    Jul. 19, 2003
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    Default

    Depending on what level he is riding at NAYRC, he could very likely be wearing a shadbelly and top hat. I would have him practice at home and maybe work a little on quietly moving things beside the horse at hat salute level to desensitize as much as possible. Also wear the tails a few times to get used to the feel of them.

    On the same line, make sure he practices saluting PROPERLY. We just had this conversation last weekend, when our lone male client put on his hunt cap at a show and was being schooled by the boss, also a male, on the proper way to salute with your hat. You must NOT show the judge the inside of the hat! I didn't know that (and it matters not, since I'm a girl). He showed him the proper way to do it, turning your wrist just so so the inside never sees the judge. I guess it is a sign of disrespect (as silly as that is), and the boss relayed a story of a judge many years ago who was know to leave his stand and flip a coin in the hat of anyone who showed him the inside!

    Good luck at Young Riders! Very exciting!



  14. #14
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    Chandler, AZ, USA
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    Default FEI rules at NAJYRC

    The NAJYRC is an FEI event and thus FEI rules apply. I looked up FEI eventing rules and it states that dressage rules apply for that phase unless otherwise stated. So in the FEI dressage rules - "10. Salute.Competitors must take the reins in one hand at the salute." To be on the safe side I would have your son ask his Chef d'Equipe to make sure there is no other rule floating around. In USEF rule DR122 a male rider has the option to remove the hat or not.
    Theresa



  15. #15
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    Default

    when a man doff his hat its respect== or to acknowledge you so he was acknowledging judges



  16. #16
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    Default

    "He typically removes his top hat "

    The question was about a top hat, not a helmet.

    As hoopoe said, best to practice it A LOT at home



  17. #17
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    Jul. 22, 2008
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    Default

    I watched Bruce Davidson do his dressage test at the Maui Jim Horse Trials 2 weekends ago, and he did NOT remove his hat, he did the "lady rider" salute. And he smiled through his whole test! (Even when his horse started whinnying and when the horse in the next ring crashed into the fencing and spooked his horse). It was a treat to watch him warmup and ride his test. I enjoyed watching his TB event dressage as much as watching the GP finals in Las Vegas.



  18. #18
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    Default

    With a rule question as important as this, where you risk elimination in the event you got it wrong or missed an update somewhere, I would first consult your Chef d'Equipe, and then confirm it by asking the TD to look it up in his rule book.



  19. #19
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    Default

    I sendom removed my cap/topper. I am under the belief it is not mandatory but more tradition. If it is good enough for the goose it is good enough for the gander. This started in part because my first horse would become nervous and render the test dismal. I had one judge write on my sheet that men should remove their hats...I told her I would remove mine if she exteneded me the same curtesy.



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