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  1. #21
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    Default please describe

    Can someone please decribe the difference between an auto release and a crest release?



  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb. 6, 2000
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    Auto release:
    http://www.karlmikolka.com/images/sinjon_bg.jpg


    Variations on the crest release:

    http://www.horsemagazine.com/CLINIC/...G/gsmith1.html

    In the "auto" release, the rider follows the horse's head movement, there is a straight line from bit to elbow, and he is not supporting his upper body by bracing the hand on the horse's neck.
    "It's like a Russian nesting doll of train wrecks."--CaitlinandTheBay

    ...just settin' on the Group W bench.



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    Ok, so you're telling me that a crest release isn't when you push your hands into the crest of the horses neck?

    I'm curious to hear your defination of a crest release.
    The definition of a crest release involves the words "crest" AND "release." Simply pushing your hands into the crest without some forward movement with the hands is no release at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.



  4. #24
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    Dec. 22, 2000
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    NY
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghazzu View Post
    I feel the need to point out one thing in this very beautiful picture of Mr. Steinkraus.

    Note that there is a tiny bit of slack in the reins between his hand and the horse's mouth. He is actually "releasing" his horse's mouth so it can use the head and neck to the fullest extent.

    Not the same thing as holding the horse's mouth in the air, restricting the jumping effort. Crucial difference in any type of release.



  5. #25
    Join Date
    Apr. 1, 2006
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    996

    Default

    Here's a very clear example of the difference between releases. The first are three short crest releases and the last an automatic. Note the difference in arm angle and hand placement.

    Short Crest Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release with an opening right rein to correct drift. Please ignore the deer. Not one of his finer rounds.
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release: (Ignore the deer impression again)
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Automatic Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578
    It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it. (Aristotle)



  6. #26
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    Mac123, what I love, love, love about your position is how you're consistantly balanced over the middle of your horse. This is what enables you to do an automatic release. Beautiful!
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.



  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov. 14, 2007
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    Southern California
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    Default

    What is now called an 'auto release' used to be known as a 'following hand'. Which is exactly what it is. Your hand follows the horse's mouth with a soft feel throughout, giving what the horse takes. In order to have a following hand, you have to have a secure, independent seat. Can't be crawling up over your horse's neck with your center of gravity in front of your heels - I see a lot of that in the local shows. Which is when you really need a 'crest release' to keep from flinging yourself up over your horse's head.



  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar. 19, 2007
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    29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    I guess different countries have different definations. AND pushing your hands into the crest of the neck seems like forward movement to me.
    why aren't you accepting anyone's answer? Everyone is saying the same thing except you.

    In your logic, i could keep my hands in my lap, have a death grip still, and just push my hands into the crest area right above the withers at takeoff. That too would be forward motion. And still not a crest release.

    Do you at least understand what an auto release is now? Or do you still think you're doing one just because you say so?



  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by kitsunegari View Post
    I guess different countries have different definations. AND pushing your hands into the crest of the neck seems like forward movement to me.
    And they must spell definition differently, too. Did you even look at the examples of the crest release in the link posted by Ghazzu? In case you missed it, here it is again:
    http://www.horsemagazine.com/CLINIC/...G/gsmith1.html
    Quote Originally Posted by SuzieQNutter
    The whip is held across your thigh so as you can still hold the reins without spilling your coffee!!
    SillyHorse adds: Or your wine.



  10. #30
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    Jun. 26, 2000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mac123 View Post
    Here's a very clear example of the difference between releases. The first are three short crest releases and the last an automatic. Note the difference in arm angle and hand placement.

    Short Crest Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release with an opening right rein to correct drift. Please ignore the deer. Not one of his finer rounds.
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release: (Ignore the deer impression again)
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Automatic Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578
    Wow. I am green w/envy. Mac, do you have any vids you can share of you over fences? Feel free to PM me if so. I loooooove your position and would like to study it in action.

    If you don't kick butt in the Eqs, there's something wrong w/the system.

    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me



  11. #31
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    Jun. 17, 2001
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    down the road from bar.ka
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    MAC, those are nice and appear correct in the entire body. That as opposed to gushing over auto release at the cost of everything else because it really is not there, despite what it looks like when you just look for a straight line. Thanks for posting them.

    Ya know, not to pick on the OP here, nothing personal. But this illustrates exactly what peeves me sometimes about these auto release threads.

    OP is standing in the irons over a teeny fence, has no hip angle at all and is rolling her wrists inward telling me they are floating above the neck plus there does not appear to be any relase going on at all. Fact it is not even a short crest relase with the floaty hands and cocked wrists. When you see rider wrists roatated in like this, it comes with elbows out. Try it sitting at the 'puter. Rotate the wrists in like you were holding reins and see where your elbows go.

    And for the OP, look at the difference between the sort of headlong appearance of your Pony in the pic and the quiet relaxation of the ones MAC posted. A simple adjustment in hip angle and hand position paint a much better picture to any observer-even a judge.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  12. #32
    Join Date
    Jan. 23, 2007
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    Virginia--wahoowa!
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    Wow! You are a beautiful rider! (But I'm sure you already knew that. )

    Quote Originally Posted by Mac123 View Post
    Here's a very clear example of the difference between releases. The first are three short crest releases and the last an automatic. Note the difference in arm angle and hand placement.

    Short Crest Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release with an opening right rein to correct drift. Please ignore the deer. Not one of his finer rounds.
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Short Crest Release: (Ignore the deer impression again)
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578

    Automatic Release:
    http://www.photostockplus.com/home.p...lbum_id=147578



  13. #33
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    Oct. 6, 2002
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    Philadelphia PA
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    Default

    Wow Mac, you sure can ride. Lovely horse too!
    ~Veronica
    "The Son Dee Times" "Sustained" "Somerset" "Franklin Square"
    http://photobucket.com/albums/y192/vxf111/



  14. #34
    pony4me is offline Grand Prix Premium Member
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    Default

    Thanks for the wonderful pictures Mac. Forums like this allow us to learn from others, and the ability to post pictures is very helpful. I knew my release wasn't the "preying mantis" variety that is so common these days, but now I understand it's not an auto release either. I appreciate all the input.



  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by pony4me View Post
    Thanks for the wonderful pictures Mac. Forums like this allow us to learn from others, and the ability to post pictures is very helpful. I knew my release wasn't the "preying mantis" variety that is so common these days, but now I understand it's not an auto release either. I appreciate all the input.
    Wow...good for you.

    Sometimes the best things we learn don't cost anything.
    When opportunity knocks it's wearing overalls and looks like work.

    The horse world. Two people. Three opinions.



  16. #36
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    "Common sense is so rare nowadays, it should be classified as a super power."-Craig Bear Laubscher



  17. #37
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    What some people forget in regards to the auto release is that the hand isn't touching the neck at all. If it is, it loses the 'follow' aspect and becomes some strange stepchild of an auto and a crest. The key element of an auto release is NOT the straight line from elbow to bit, but rather, the hand that follows the mouth. The straight line is a product of the following and happens naturally. If there is a significant amount of tension in the reins, and a hand that is touching the neck, regardless of straight elbow to bit line, my opinion is that it is not an auto release.

    Saying that, I don't think ThreeDay's or Anyplace's students picture shows a true auto. They are on their way, though. I couldn't see Mac's picture except as a thumbnail (won't open larger) but it looks nice. The Steinkraus pictures definitely show an auto. The softeness in his elbows and in the reins is beautiful. The above photo as well.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    What some people forget in regards to the auto release is that the hand isn't touching the neck at all. If it is, it loses the 'follow' aspect and becomes some strange stepchild of an auto and a crest. The key element of an auto release is NOT the straight line from elbow to bit, but rather, the hand that follows the mouth. The straight line is a product of the following and happens naturally. If there is a significant amount of tension in the reins, and a hand that is touching the neck, regardless of straight elbow to bit line, my opinion is that it is not an auto release.

    Saying that, I don't think ThreeDay's or Anyplace's students picture shows a true auto. They are on their way, though. I couldn't see Mac's picture except as a thumbnail (won't open larger) but it looks nice. The Steinkraus pictures definitely show an auto. The softeness in his elbows and in the reins is beautiful. The above photo as well.
    I have always wondered about this too -- as in, the true execution of an AR. Yet, whenever I read GM's critiques, he'll say, "I just wish so-and-so would drop her hands about three inches down so she'd be exhibiting an AR." And then he goes on to say that a rider of that level should be using an AR. But he doesn't say, "I just wish so-and-so would drop her hands about three inches down and leave them floating just so at the sides of the neck, so she'd be exhibiting an AR."

    So, that has always confused me. Now, here's my next question, I recall the term 'jumping out of hand'. Someone recently saw a pic of me where my hands were not touching the neck and said, "I love how you are jumping the horse out of hand." I remember this term from way back but don't hear it at all now. The comment was made by someone in their 50's. I'm in my 40's. Which makes me wonder -- if they are floating out to the sides, is that considered simply jumping out of hand? Or is jumping out of hand and the AR the same thing?

    The mystery continues....

    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me



  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anyplace Farm View Post
    Or is jumping out of hand and the AR the same thing?

    The mystery continues....
    IMO, there is no mystery. They are the same thing.
    Keith: "Now...let's do something normal fathers and daughters do."
    Veronica: "Buy me a pony?"



  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by RugBug View Post
    IMO, there is no mystery. They are the same thing.
    To me, it makes sense that in order to truly follow, your hands should not be resting on the sides of the horse's neck. I actually recently ran a search on Equisearch for 'automatic release' and referred to my GM Eq book and some current copies of PH Mag for same to clear the mystery up for myself on whether or not pressing your hands at the sides is still considered auto. I seriously like to execute stuff as classically and correctly as possible and before this thread even started, was trying to get to the bottom of it. Anyway, after digging thru all that crap, even GM doesn't say anything about pressing hands into the sides as not having done a correct execution of an AR.

    But certainly, when looking at the old pix of them doing it, you do not see any of them pressing their hands into the sides of the neck, rather, they are either lightly there or just barely 'brushing' (or hovering?). Just can't figure out why we don't see GM (because I count on him to give us the gospel) specifying.

    "If you have the time, spend it. If you have a hand, lend it. If you have the money, give it. If you have a heart, share it." by me



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