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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    4,329

    Default Selling egg's / lending out your mare's uterus ...

    I have someone who I am negotiating with to do an ET breeding with one of my mares.

    They will select the stallion (with my final approval). They will pay all vet, transportation, board, etc charges. All I am doing is delivering my mare to the repro centre on a given day, picking her up when she is ready to come home and they are paying $XXXX.XX for her egg and the use of her uterus to produce a custom made foal.

    Once the recipient mare is implanted with the viable embryo and all is good, my part of the equation is done and thats it and life goes on for my mare and for me

    Who has been involved in this sort of scenario before? Do you have a contract that you could email to me at: truecolours@xplornet.com

    How many tries are fair for both sides? From my perspective, since I am not trying to breed this mare myself this year, it is immaterial to me if they try once or 5 times to get it done.

    When would the agreed price be payable? Up front? When the mare is inseminated? When the embryo is implanted into the recipient mare? What if - at 30 or 60 days, the embryo is lost - should all of the money be refunded? Half of it? Any of it? How is it addressed if a Live Foal is not produced but by that time *I* have bred the mare or she has been sold and/or she is no longer available on an ET basis. How is that handled and addressed?

    Many thanks for any/all comments and suggestions!



  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    We would be interested in receiving information about this as well. We offered our Alla'Czar mare for a similar arrangement. Ultimately it did not work out because the one interested party balked at paying us a fee for the use of our mare!!! But surely there will be interest in future about such a "custom foal" arrangement. Please post or PM us if you have now or receive in future further information in this regard. TIA!
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr. 4, 2008
    Posts
    301

    Default

    That is crazy that they thought you would risk your lovely mare for FREE! My mare had a HORRIBLE delivery this year, she almost died. And she's young and healthy (and recovering well thankfully). Even a modest fee for the use of your mare and her egg would be reasonable.



  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug. 26, 2001
    Location
    Oxford PA
    Posts
    10,337

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sunny's Mom View Post
    That is crazy that they thought you would risk your lovely mare for FREE! My mare had a HORRIBLE delivery this year, she almost died. And she's young and healthy (and recovering well thankfully). Even a modest fee for the use of your mare and her egg would be reasonable.
    With ET (Embryo Transfer) the mare contributing the egg does not have to carry or deliver the foal. The use of her uterus would be very brief (until the embryo was recovered). I suppose there are always things that could go wrong but delivery is not one of them.



  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar. 17, 2006
    Location
    North Central Florida
    Posts
    1,380

    Default

    In the case of the sale of the egg, one would expect to receive payment for the egg, not the use of the uterus. In the case of a "custom foal", one would expect a fee for the use of the uterus. Two different concepts.
    Sakura Hill Farm
    Now on Facebook

    Young and developing horses for A-circuit jumper and hunter rings.



  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2003
    Location
    Merry Land
    Posts
    1,046

    Default

    I'm just curious, what sort of fee do you imagine there would be for the egg? Would it be similar to a stud fee?
    Last edited by mistyjewell; Jul. 10, 2008 at 07:41 PM.
    ---------------------------

    ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~



  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2005
    Posts
    3,823

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistyjewell View Post
    I'm just curious, what sort of fee do you imagine there would be for the egg? Would ie be similar to a stud fee?
    When I inquired about a successful hunter-mare, legit 6-figure horse who has shown & won a lot, it was a bit less than a stud fee...



  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov. 5, 2000
    Posts
    9,268

    Default

    I think I would charge a fee at least equivalent to the stud fee. It does cause a certain amount of trauma to a mare's system to be inseminated and flushed for an ET, and I would certainly want to be compensated for that, esp. considering the off chance that her future reproductive capabilities may be compromised by the procedures (rare, but possible).

    I can't believe anyone would expect a mare owner to just offer up their mare's reproductive system for free. If someone values your mare enough to want an egg/embryo from her, then they ought to be willing to pay for it.



  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2005
    Location
    near historic Gettysburg PA
    Posts
    2,678

    Default

    Most of these type deals I know of DO offer a LFG (or 1/2 fee escrowed) and a fee under 4K
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    Default

    In this particular case, the client would select the stallion to be used, my mare would be inseminated and then the embryo (hopefully!) flushed at Day 6 and implanted into the recipient mare

    So the trauma to my mare is extremely minimal (to non existent???), her downtime is nil, I dont want her super ovulated at all as they are just trying for the one embryo and thats it, and the stress would be non existent to her as well as she is well used to being shuttled around ...

    I know when I asked around on this a year ago, I got in contact with some AQHA people on this and they had one mare who had amassed so many points and was so well bred and regarded, they got $10,000.00 per egg from her. You selected the stallion, you paid everything and she made her mare available to you. And another Andalusian breeder I spoke to with some very fancy, imported Andalusians was in the same league - $10,000.00 per egg and you paid everything on top of that.

    I guess if these mares are legitimately worth in the solid six figure ranges,
    most people would not be in a position to buy them even if they were for sale, so for a small percentage of their worth, they get the chance at producing something very very special ...

    And I am flabbergasted as well that ANYONE would think that a mare and / or her uterus and/or her eggs and/or her embryo's would be offerred up free of charge ...



  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr. 13, 2005
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TrueColours View Post
    I got in contact with some AQHA people on this and they had one mare who had amassed so many points and was so well bred and regarded, they got $10,000.00 per egg from her.
    Well, having a neighbor who does the AQHA stuff, it seems like they like to spend big-time $$$$ on what most would never think of....that number doesn't surpise me at all, and the same with the 'specialty' breeds, Icelandic's, Gypsie's, etc.


    Another mare I looked at, who has produced multiple 6-figure hunters, was offered for around 1k...

    I think the prices would also increase if you are looking to produce a true international jumper or dressage horse.



  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2005
    Location
    near historic Gettysburg PA
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    Default

    There is a DSHB dressage mare named Dot Com, not sure that she was ever beat. You can get a frozen embryo from her. I believe from a selection of stallions.. for about 4k. She is also available for custom ET foals for around the same amount.

    I know of a Grand Prix dressage mare you can have LFG for 2K

    Didn't they also do this with Rox Dene? I believe it was affordable...

    ANYTIME you invade a mare, there is risk....there should be SOME fee to cover risk alone..
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  13. #13
    Join Date
    Feb. 3, 2003
    Location
    Merry Land
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    1,046

    Default

    So the mare, Dot Com, you said embryo, so does that mean it's already fertilized? So the $4k would then be the egg plus the stud fee, which depending on the stallion, would work out to be $2k ish for the egg?
    ---------------------------

    ~Once you have ridden the tiger it is impossible to dismount~



  14. #14
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2005
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    near historic Gettysburg PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by mistyjewell View Post
    So the mare, Dot Com, you said embryo, so does that mean it's already fertilized? So the $4k would then be the egg plus the stud fee, which depending on the stallion, would work out to be $2k ish for the egg?
    correct... that is frozen embryo, includes stud fee and egg costs... you are 2/3 of the way there with a frozen embryo...
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb. 22, 2000
    Location
    Keswick, VA
    Posts
    7,868

    Default

    Didn't they also do this with Rox Dene? I believe it was affordable...
    No. We made an attempt to do embryo transfer, for ourselves and for a few close friends with their own stallions, when she was first retired, but the technology at the time was too new to be productive, and MUCH more expensive than it is now, so even if it had been successful it wouldn't have been particularly "affordable" for anyone.
    We did do one embryo transfer for ourselves later after she had carried her own foals. I've had many people inquire since about using her for their own embryo transfers, but, frankly, she doesn't find the procedure at all stress-free and I don't consider it worth it at any price to put her at risk for someone else's foal, or even our own at this point.



  16. #16
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
    Location
    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    Default

    $4000.00 for an embryo seems incredibly low unless you own the mare and the stallion and you have a special deal worked out with the vet!

    I know one clinic here is $3500.00 for the entire procedure, plus the stud fee, another vet has quoted $1500.00 plus any/all drugs required, plus the stud fee.

    The lady that is looking into doing this with my mare is in the $3700.00 - $4500.00 range for vet fees alone at a very well respected clinic so I dont know how anyone could sell an embryo for $4000.00 unless they super ovulated the mare and had several embryo's frozen at the same time ...



  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul. 6, 2008
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    158

    Default

    No, it's $4000 plus expenses. Scroll down to embryos for sale. They also sell embryos from SPS Whoopy. http://www.marideehanoverians.com/forsale.html

    Is your client after Faux Finish's eggs?
    Can you PM me what you decide on price?



  18. #18
    Join Date
    Sep. 15, 2005
    Location
    near historic Gettysburg PA
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by One is Enough View Post
    No, it's $4000 plus expenses. Scroll down to embryos for sale. They also sell embryos from SPS Whoopy. http://www.marideehanoverians.com/forsale.html
    It is $4000 plus expenses for using DotCom Or Whoopy for your own ET..

    That is NOT the price of the already frozen embryos from Whoopy. The price is a set price, NOT plus expenses... you buy the actual already frozen embryo. My apologies that I did not check the site for the exact details prior to posting, as I did not know they were posted. I do not remember exact cost, but it was VERY reasonable and less than 5 K.

    The Grand Prix mare was 2K ( plus expenses) for LFG , I considered her for myself...

    Sorry it did not work out better with Rox Dene,

    I had considered offering our foundation mare Alpenglow ( when she was alive) to others too, but I was concerned for the time at the clinic... I did not feel she was very well cared for at the first clinic I sent her to and the bill to me was over $8000...The recipient mare I received was a TOTAL nutcase, and dangerous. I could not wait to get her off my farm. The ET I did at home had cost about $750 above the cost of a normal breeding, and I had my own , very reliable recipient mare. Luckily both resulting ET daughters have proven their worth over and over...
    "It's not how good you ride, It's how good your horse covers for you." -Kristan
    Magic Rose Farm- home of Beste Gold & Hot Shot
    Beste Gold & Offspring on Facebook
    Magic Rose Farm Warmbloods on FB



  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec. 14, 2007
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    Wilsonville, Ontario, CANADA
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    Default

    One is Enough - correct. I actually have 2 in the works now that I am speaking with and have to figure out - logistically - how to make it happen to be fair to both of them as well as to the mare.

    I will PM you now ...



  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jul. 5, 2002
    Location
    FL
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    8,270

    Default

    There is growing evidence that repeated flushes can cause some wear and tear to the donor mare's uterus that can be detrimental. I was asked about selling embryos from one of my girls last year and declined because I prefer to take the risk of an ET and the benefits myself. Food for thought.



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